Almost a vegetarian!

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Where's Nate when you need him?

I'm not satisfied that red meat is a significant health risk, given the paucity of studies that isolate it from processed meat.

The numbers become entirely unconcerning when you compare them to something really harmful like asbesdos or tobacco exposure.

Far too many vegetarians I know seem to suffer from some sort of chronic illness or health issue. That's not to say you can't have a healthy vegetarian diet but it takes some skill and knowlege to get it right.
 
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Let's be honest now, most meat eaters eat the cheaper processed meat, ie Sausages, burgers, meatballs, bacon, hotdogs ..etc .etc )

This is the stuff that's REALLY bad for you if you eat it everyday (which a LOT of meat eaters do)
 
C.R.A.Z.Y said:
Let's be honest now, most meat eaters eat the cheaper processed meat, ie Sausages, burgers, meatballs, bacon, hotdogs ..etc .etc )

This is the stuff that's REALLY bad for you if you eat it everyday (which a LOT of meat eaters do)
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Lol again, we aren't talking about what people generlay do, most vegetarians miss out massive amounts of nutrition and eat processed crap as well. Especially in the last 10 years

And again no its not relay bad for you, relative risk percentages sound scary but they aren't.
 
C.R.A.Z.Y said:
Let's be honest now, most meat eaters eat the cheaper processed meat, ie Sausages, burgers, meatballs, bacon, hotdogs ..etc .etc )

This is the stuff that's REALLY bad for you if you eat it everyday (which a LOT of meat eaters do)
Click to expand...

That's like Jews not eating pork because pigs were kept really badly in the middle ages.

It may help some people but it's not sensible advice.

The people who ate sausages and turkey twizzlers are not going to be the ones making a fresh ratatouille using vegetables from the farmers market. They're going to be the ones who buy the cheap frozen deep fried vege nuggets from the supermarket (you know the ones, a bit of sweetcorn and carrot packed with wheat flour and deep fried in breadcrumbs - but 100% vege!).

Education is better than doctrine.
 
So the biggest study ever conducted on the matter and the experts from Harvard are wrong then ??

What does a 13% increased "risk of mortality" (for each additional serving of unprocessed red meat) mean for an individual? Dr. Walter Willett, a senior scientist on the team and the chair of the departments of nutrition and epidemiology at the Harvard School of Public Health, suggests this way of looking at the study results:

"If someone is age 60 and has a 50% chance of dying in the next 25 years, adding one serving a day would increase his risk of dying in that time to about 57%, and if he had two servings a day, this would be about a 63% risk of dying in that time."

In other words, the effects of unhealthy foods are relative to where you start, and eating red meat—the study shows—comes with a mortality tax. But there is also a hefty mortality dividend to cutting back on red meat. Consuming less than half a serving (1.5 ounces) per day of red meat could have prevented about one in 10 premature deaths in men in the study.
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Source = http://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/cutting-red-meat-for-a-longer-life
 
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Yep that's relative risk, lot less scarry than 30% isn't it.
And no reduction in red meat wouldn't prevent that, as other studies which have ioslotaed processed meat, found no correlation.

But keep ignoring what we know and misunderstanding studies.
 
Other less respected and much smaller studies (many of which no doubt funded by the meat industry/lobby :rolleyes: )

I guess WHO are wrong as well :confused:
The World Health Organisation has classified processed meats – including ham, salami, sausages and hot dogs – as a class 1 carcinogen which means that there is strong evidence that processed meats cause cancer.
Red meat, such as beef, lamb and pork has been classified as a 'probable' cause of cancer.

World Health Organization Says Processed Meat Causes Cancer

Twenty-two experts from 10 countries reviewed more than 800 studies to reach their conclusions. They found that eating 50 grams of processed meat every day increased the risk of colorectal cancer by 18%. That’s the equivalent of about 4 strips of bacon or 1 hot dog. For red meat, there was evidence of increased risk of colorectal, pancreatic, and prostate cancer.
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Source = http://www.cancer.org/cancer/news/world-health-organization-says-processed-meat-causes-cancer


So we have:

Harvard School Of Medicine
British Heart Foundation
World Health Organisation
and many more respected institutions ALL saying processed meat is really bad for you and consuming moderate to large amounts of even unprocessed RED meat is detrimental to your health, but I guess these idiots don't have a clue:rolleyes:
 
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Yes processed meat is the worse of the bunch but the study also clearly shows that moderate to large daily consumption's of even UNPROCESSED red meat isn't good for you. (Hence why WHO have classified them as a 'probable' cause of cancer)

Anyway I can't be ass'd to argue anymore, some people here are clearly moderate to heavy consumers of nasty processed meat and are in denial because of it!
 
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Twenty-two experts from 10 countries reviewed more than 800 studies to reach their conclusions. They found that eating 50 grams of processed meat every day increased the risk of colorectal cancer by 18%. That’s the equivalent of about 4 strips of bacon or 1 hot dog. For red meat, there was evidence of increased risk of colorectal, pancreatic, and prostate cancer.
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Fantastic. I get to eat 4 rashers of bacon every day and it only increases my risk of colorectal cancer by 18%? Lets see - men generally have a 1 in 14 (7%) lifetime risk of getting bowel cancer (according to cancer research UK - http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/hea...tics-by-cancer-type/bowel-cancer#heading-Zero)

Increasing that risk by 18% gives us - WOOO - an 8% lifetime risk!!!

For 4 rashers of bacon per day - I'll take the chance.
 
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C.R.A.Z.Y said:
Yes processed meat is the worse of the bunch but the study also clearly shows that moderate to large daily consumption's of even UNPROCESSED red meat isn't good for you. (Hence why WHO have classified them as a 'probable' cause of cancer)

Anyway I can't be ass'd to argue anymore, some people here are clearly moderate to heavy consumers of nasty processed meat and are in denial because of it!
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No it doesn't as it couldn't separate them, however the larger study that did separate showed processed increase risk while red meat did nothing.

You are still failing to read, hardly surprising. As the other poster said.
We've found the milliantant vegetarian. Throw reason out the window. And sprout outdated lies.
Same as the cholesterol bunch.
 
I used to follow a vegetarian diet many years ago, though I found a high strength multi-vitamin was required to fully complement my overall well being. Ethically speaking, I think it's much better for our planet, and of course, where animals are particularly badly treated, better for them as well, unsurprisingly. However, I don't know if I could / will go back to a veggie diet again, though I decided a little while ago to no longer eat meats such as lamb (I'd prefer to eat something that at the very least has had a bit of life). I fully respect others reasons for going veggie / vegan, though. I also don't believe that everyone has the right digestion / genes to break down the same foods as, say, the next person e.g. an Asian diet is different to a European one. :)

I always liked the response Arnold gave to a reporter once when asked if he drank milk (during his Mr. Olympia days). He replied that he didn't, and added that "milk is for babies.....when you grow up you have to drink beer". :D ;)
 
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C.R.A.Z.Y said:
Other less respected and much smaller studies (many of which no doubt funded by the meat industry/lobby :rolleyes: )

I guess WHO are wrong as well :confused:
The World Health Organisation has classified processed meats – including ham, salami, sausages and hot dogs – as a class 1 carcinogen which means that there is strong evidence that processed meats cause cancer.
Red meat, such as beef, lamb and pork has been classified as a 'probable' cause of cancer.

World Health Organization Says Processed Meat Causes Cancer



Source = http://www.cancer.org/cancer/news/world-health-organization-says-processed-meat-causes-cancer


So we have:

Harvard School Of Medicine
British Heart Foundation
World Health Organisation
and many more respected institutions ALL saying processed meat is really bad for you and consuming moderate to large amounts of even unprocessed RED meat is detrimental to your health, but I guess these idiots don't have a clue:rolleyes:
Click to expand...


Do you even read half the stuff you are posting:confused:
 
Muban said:
Being vegan makes more sense to me than being vegetarian, pescetarian I understand even less (if people are doing it for moral reasons that is).
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Zethor said:
Being vegetarian makes sense because it's healthier.
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The majority of people I have met are vegetarian for moral reasons not health reasons, hence the part of my post in brackets. Obviously if people have changed their diets for health reasons or because they believe it is healthier it's a different story. I hadn't said that specifically but I had thought it was clear from what I had written.

Far too many generalisations in this thread. Loads of meat eaters only eat meat occasionally and certainly not daily. I've personally never met a militant vegan. There probably are some but you'd likely not know about the ones that aren't militant as they aren't telling you about it :p. Lots of vegetarians have poor diets but the same goes for lots of meat eaters. Despite the ever growing demand for vegetarian, vegan, celiac, lactose free options it's still really awkward trying to find restaurants that have a decent selection of meals available for those people (certainly outside of major cities). It shouldn't be that hard really. The best bet up here is Indian restaurants who are really accommodating and will make things up for you if you let them know what you can't have.

I missed in the OP: You've stopped eating chocolate?! This is the real problem :p ;)
 
I feel partly responsible for this red/processed confusion - I definitely meant "processed" not "red" for the cancer risk, but it looks like that's now sorted out. I don't know about the evidence for red unprocessed meat.

As many others have said too, "health" isn't even the main reason for most veggies, I just think it's one that will appeal to many people who might think they're eating too much meat. And most people are eating too much meat. A little reduction is usually good for many reasons, including health, but also energy and water consumption, and obviously animal 'welfare'.

arc@css said:
I always liked the response Arnold gave to a reporter once when asked if he drank milk (during his Mr. Olympia days). He replied that he didn't, and added that "milk is for babies.....when you grow up you have to drink beer". :D ;)
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Let's not get started on that! He's got a point though.
 
2 1/2 years , did 6 hours in a meat factory and that was it ,what a vile place , dont want something to die for my meals and my quon currys with chickpeas tomatoes est are awesome ;)
 
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