42.3% of Londoners have less than £100 in savings

[Angilion]

Can someone explain to me the word retire, because how the hell on earth could you just sit back so to say? "Am waiting to die"

Unless you grind yourself into the ground, or become ill.

What is retirement? Giving up on life, waiting for Mr Grim....

I don't get this **** at all.

I can explain retirement quite easily. It's when you have a life rather than a job.

If your job is your life to such an extent that you cannot even understand the idea of not doing it, you are going to suffer very badly when that job is taken away from you. Which it will be. Maybe by another person, maybe by a computer or robot, maybe by a decision made by someone with enough power in the organisation you work for which removes your job, maybe by ill health. No way of telling what the cause(s) will be but it will definitely happen sooner or later unless you manage to die first.

Rushing towards death because you can't bear to stop serving an organisation that doesn't even care about you sounds a lot less appealing to me than it does to you.

 

[Faustus]

I can explain retirement quite easily. It's when you have a life rather than a job.

If your job is your life to such an extent that you cannot even understand the idea of not doing it, you are going to suffer very badly when that job is taken away from you. Which it will be. Maybe by another person, maybe by a computer or robot, maybe by a decision made by someone with enough power in the organisation you work for which removes your job, maybe by ill health. No way of telling what the cause(s) will be but it will definitely happen sooner or later unless you manage to die first.

Rushing towards death because you can't bear to stop serving an organisation that doesn't even care about you sounds a lot less appealing to me than it does to you.

That is such a good well constructed response, and oh how true.

 

[Angilion]

[..]
My problem I suppose if it is to be classed as one is that I do believe in Universal Pay, strongly, I certainly understand it's not something that can be implemented any time soon but I believe in the distant future it will be, and it will revolutionize society, it will give us a lot more flexibility and in my opinion will be much fairer, you will have a basic income that guarantees everyone a very minimal but safe standard of living, no more means tested benefits, no more fear, everyone in the future rich or poor should have this security as standard, I do not believe it will lead to a break down in society, most people want more than what a basic income would provide, if anything it would place more people in work and also allow more people to work less hours if they wanted to freeing up work for others, I believe in a society that has more people in work, but has more flexibility in the workplace [..]

While it's a bizarre fringe idea at the moment, I think it will have to happen far sooner than the distant future.

The existing system of mass employment with a welfare system is being rapidly made unsustainable by advances in technology. It will not exist for very much longer, certainly not into the distant future. It won't be very long until there simply isn't enough paid work to sustain the existing system because almost all work would be done more cheaply by robots or computers. This isn't speculative fiction. It's happening already and the tipping point is in the near future, not the distant future.

The current system of a mass of people in crap jobs for crap pay has worked for millenia, but it's not going to work for much longer. All that work will go and that alone will be enough to make the system unsustainable. The middle jobs will go soon afterwards and many of the high jobs not long after that. There is already, for example, a program that can perform medical diagnoses and suggest the best treatment. It's currently a tool for doctors. In the near future, an improved version will be able to do routine medical work currently done by doctors...so fewer doctors will be needed.

Replacing the current system with one that will work in a society in which almost all work is done by machines is something that will have to be done in the near future, not the distant future, because we won't have a choice. It's not a conflict between ideologies. It's a survival requirement imposed by changes. Unless the population is reduced to a few percent of what it is now, some system will have to be devised to make survival possible for the great majority of people for whom there isn't any paid work. There will have to be social and economic changes. A universal basic income seems to me to be the least impractical solution. A full on Star Trek setup without any money at all might be better on paper, but how would that work? Allowing everyone without a job to die would also work on paper, but if most of the population know they are going to die unless society changes there will be a revolt. I think changing society away from the emphasis on paid work is a better solution.

 

[Mr Badger]

Life isn't black and white.

Hard work pays off in the long term – but laziness pays off now!

 

[regulus]

Smart work pays off. Sometimes even more so than hard work

 

[malachi]

Smart work pays off. Sometimes even more so than hard work

Working smarter not harder always pays off.

 

[krooton]

I have no liquid savings, as clearing my debt comes first, but due to a very generous pension scheme at work, I have got £6k in there from just a year's worth of contributions.

 

[rawuk]

I can explain retirement quite easily. It's when you have a life rather than a job.

If your job is your life to such an extent that you cannot even understand the idea of not doing it, you are going to suffer very badly when that job is taken away from you. Which it will be. Maybe by another person, maybe by a computer or robot, maybe by a decision made by someone with enough power in the organisation you work for which removes your job, maybe by ill health. No way of telling what the cause(s) will be but it will definitely happen sooner or later unless you manage to die first.

Rushing towards death because you can't bear to stop serving an organisation that doesn't even care about you sounds a lot less appealing to me than it does to you.

A little biased towards those that are mere drones I would say...

If you work in a niche field, are self-employed or run your own small to medium sized firm there is a large chance you may not wish to ever fully retire as you're likely working in a field you enjoy.

Although you are totally correct that lifestyle should be king and work a tool to facilitate said lifestyle not work for the sake of work.

 

[Richdog]

A little biased towards those that are mere drones I would say...

If you work in a niche field, are self-employed or run your own small to medium sized firm there is a large chance you may not wish to ever fully retire as you're likely working in a field you enjoy.

Although you are totally correct that lifestyle should be king and work a tool to facilitate said lifestyle not work for the sake of work.

I know tons of self-employed contractors who can't wait to retire... being self-employed doesn't guarantee satisfaction in anything. Owning your own company, yes satisfying to make it grow, but then that is very different.

 

[Housey]

Hard work pays off in the long term – but laziness pays off now!

Smart work pays off. Sometimes even more so than hard work

Working smarter not harder always pays off.

Off work pays smart sometimes even so more than hard.

Sorry, it's all I have, you have it covered

 

[rawuk]

I know tons of self-employed contractors who can't wait to retire... being self-employed doesn't guarantee satisfaction in anything. Owning your own company, yes satisfying to make it grow, but then that is very different.

I never said it did

"large chance you may not wish to ever fully retire as you're likely working in a field you enjoy".

I disagree that everyone is wanting to retire immediately as soon as they are able. Work satisfaction and work enjoyment does exist.

 

[Richdog]

I never said it did

"large chance you may not wish to ever fully retire as you're likely working in a field you enjoy".

I disagree that everyone is wanting to retire immediately as soon as they are able. Work satisfaction and work enjoyment does exist.

Yes, and I was disagreeing that self-employment means a "large chance" of wanting to work past retiremeent as it covers so many things. It's just normal for many people.

And of course work satisfaction and enjoyment exist.

 

[rawuk]

Yes, and I was disagreeing that self-employment means a "large chance" of wanting to work past retiremeent as it covers so many things. It's just normal for many people.

And of course work satisfaction and enjoyment exist.

For one... Different circles different experiences.

For two... Context is important "niche field, are self-employed or run your own small to medium sized firm" was meant to indiicate a certain level of skill not the entirity of every tom dick and harry who happens to work self-employed to save on national insurance as you would never compare them to someone who owns their own company. My bad for terrible English

 

[Angilion]

A little biased towards those that are mere drones I would say...

If you work in a niche field, are self-employed or run your own small to medium sized firm there is a large chance you may not wish to ever fully retire as you're likely working in a field you enjoy.

Although you are totally correct that lifestyle should be king and work a tool to facilitate said lifestyle not work for the sake of work.

A little biased towards the vast majority of employed people, yes. That includes many people who are self-employed as well.

Yes, there are some people who are working in a field they enjoy. Good for them. I watched a video a little while ago from the British Museum. Irving Finkel is the curator's name. It's a lovely video. Many years ago he was a boy visiting the museum and was fascinated by a game board that had been found in a dig at an ancient city. Nobody knew how to play the game. A couple of decades later and now a noted expert in the field, he was the person who deciphered a tablet explaining the rules of the game and was the first person in millenia to play it. He's been working at the museum for decades and would like to carry on working there for centuries. But few people can make a living doing something they enjoy doing.

Also, the main part of my post applies to those few people as well:

If your job is your life to such an extent that you cannot even understand the idea of not doing it, you are going to suffer very badly when that job is taken away from you.

Even if you're self-employed and enjoy your job, you will at some point lose your job unless you manage to die first. The field you work in could shrink enormously due to social and/or technological changes. Your business could be wiped out by a bigger competitor. You might be unable to continue doing it due to health contraints. A job that is enjoyable at 30 may well be impossible at 70 with athritis.

 

[Angilion]

I disagree that everyone is wanting to retire immediately as soon as they are able. Work satisfaction and work enjoyment does exist.

Who are you disagreeing with? You replied to me, but I didn't write that everyone is wanting to retire immediately as soon as they are able. I tried to explain retirement to someone who didn't know what it was. They knew the definition of the word but had no understanding of it at all.

 

[Jay794]

Not surprised, living in London is expensive

 

[flibbage0]

Was not expecting the % to be that high

Horses for courses I guess, I just know from experience whilst at University for 4 years being in my overdraft constantly (not spending loan on stupid stuff btw) made me feel down constantly. Seeing >£600 a month going out on basic necessities (rent+utilities).

I've decided to move back with my parents and yes there are some annoyances but I need to save money for my personal goals (car related).

As far as I can see it is worth the small sacrifice in the long run, work hard now whilst I have the energy and few responsibilities. Invest in a few years, then hopefully the investments work out.

The only sticking point is anything I look at to invest goes up astronomically year on year, wonder whether I'll actually be able to afford it

 

[rawuk]

Who are you disagreeing with? You replied to me, but I didn't write that everyone is wanting to retire immediately as soon as they are able. I tried to explain retirement to someone who didn't know what it was. They knew the definition of the word but had no understanding of it at all.

Your explanation was very starkly written and gave no leeway for people that will continue work or any variation of it in retirement. That's what I'm disagreeing with and I know for a fact is wrong... I am an IFA...

We can all predict the end times but people have been for centuries so put away the doom and gloom. Anyone whose read any sci-fi novel knows AI could replace us all the same way agricultural machinery has replaced the average field picker. Although that's still ongoing decades later. It is not a good description of retirement.

People should approach retirement with joy due to one of the most valuable commodities becoming available to them. Which is time... of course this is for the vast majority that realise they need to save for it. If you plan to live on the state pension alone there may be far more negative emotions but as we're in a pc hobby forum I'd expect most people here are at least average earners so should expect better if they had adequately planned.

 

[regulus]

The older people get, the more nihilistic they seem to get. They pounce on and recite like a trained monkey every last negative fact or evidence on how complete doom is just around the corner. Just nod, smile, be clever with money, enjoy life and you'll always be ok.

 

[Angilion]

We can all predict the end times but people have been for centuries so put away the doom and gloom.

The older people get, the more nihilistic they seem to get. They pounce on and recite like a trained monkey every last negative fact or evidence on how complete doom is just around the corner. Just nod, smile, be clever with money, enjoy life and you'll always be ok.

Feel free to tell me where mass employment is going to be when there aren't any more transport or manufacturing jobs and far fewer distribution and service jobs.

Also...which parts of CGP Grey's video "Humans Need Not Apply" do you think are completely wrong?

I haven't predicted the end times. I'm not even speculating. None of the things I've mentioned are theoretical - they are already underway. If you have answers to them, feel free to share.

We might end up with a utopia. It's a possibility. But major change will be required and nodding, smiling and ignoring what's already happening won't bring it about.