Driverless cars

asim18 said:
Funny you mention paranoia. It's actually a very useful human trait which can be pretty useful while driving. The amount of times I'm paranoid about the car next to me veering into my lane in a 2 lane bend/turn, and then I stagger myself, and then he actually ends up cutting in, and I'm like phew good thing I staggered myself. Also many other scenarios where paranoia is very useful, a computer simply cannot anticipate like a human brain can. Even straight up fear is useful while driving!
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"Paranoia" as you put it is useful for humans because the human reaction time is not fast enough to make decent assessments of the situation and do something before a collision. Computers don't have that issue and so don't need "paranoia".
 
Burnsy2023 said:
"Paranoia" as you put it is useful for humans because the human reaction time is not fast enough to make decent assessments of the situation and do something before a collision. Computers don't have that issue and so don't need "paranoia".
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Are you saying you're incapable of avoiding a collision? Never swerved? No concept of defensive driving?

That's fair enough most people on roads don't have this ability and that is why we need to work on making the standards required for licensing far more stricter, rather than letting some beta computer algorithms onto roads to add to the mayhem.
 
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Burnsy2023 said:
"Paranoia" as you put it is useful for humans because the human reaction time is not fast enough to make decent assessments of the situation and do something before a collision. Computers don't have that issue and so don't need "paranoia".
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Reaction times are one thing, but without wishing to sound too abstract here some driving intuition can seem almost like prescience.

More than once have i found myself slowing down for no justifiable reason, just a gut feeling, only for something to be around the corner that i had no way of seeing, how can an automated system replicate that?
 
adolf hamster said:
Reaction times are one thing, but without wishing to sound too abstract here some driving intuition can seem almost like prescience.

More than once have i found myself slowing down for no justifiable reason, just a gut feeling, only for something to be around the corner that i had no way of seeing, how can an automated system replicate that?
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That's hardly prescience though is it, that's slowing down due to going around a blind bend and having no idea if there's a stationary tractor or something around it :p
 
asim18 said:
Are you saying you're incapable of avoiding a collision? Never swerved? No concept of defensive driving?
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You're missing the point that if all cars were driverless they wouldn't need to drive 'paranoid' of other cars swerving into them, because they'd be more predictable and possibly be able to communicate to each other about their intentions and upcoming dangers.

The combination of driverless and human-operated cars on the road however probably makes it much harder to design a good AI because you have to expect people doing mad things.
 
joeyjojo said:
You're missing the point that if all cars were driverless they wouldn't need to drive 'paranoid' of other cars swerving into them, because they'd be more predictable and possibly be able to communicate to each other about their intentions and upcoming dangers.

The combination of driverless and human-operated cars on the road however probably makes it much harder to design a good AI because you have to expect people doing mad things.
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All cars driverless? Good grief that is an utterly depressing thought and one I am grateful will not happen in my lifetime. At least I sincerely hope not :(
 
lol, my stance has nothing to do with because computers don't make mistakes computationally, I cant be much clearer. we have figures for deaths per million miles and such. these are all you need to know to compare safety.

average in usa 89million miles per death
tesla auto pilot version 1, 111million miles per death.

the death caused by the lorry has been fixed in the latest release for example.
let alone the more cameras installed on new tesla since October 10.

nothing about computers etc.

driverless cars are coming and it'll only continue to get safer.
 
adolf hamster said:
Reaction times are one thing, but without wishing to sound too abstract here some driving intuition can seem almost like prescience.

More than once have i found myself slowing down for no justifiable reason, just a gut feeling, only for something to be around the corner that i had no way of seeing, how can an automated system replicate that?
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You are seeing lots of things. The slight change of direction or speed in your peripherals is being observed and processed by your brain, you just struggle to analyse what you saw and when. What you're doing isn't special, it's just that you can't work out what your brain is doing, all the signs are still there though and can be picked up by an autonomous car and processed in the same way.
 
Dunks said:
That's hardly prescience though is it, that's slowing down due to going around a blind bend and having no idea if there's a stationary tractor or something around it :p
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I'm meaning slowing down more so than i ordinarily would, for example a corner i'd usually take at 50 slowing down to 35 without knowing why i'm doing it.

My prime example was it happened, big sweeping bend, next thing you know a dog jumps out of the hedge and stands in the middle of the road, i nearly hit him but didnt because i'd been going slowly, to this day i have no idea how i could have known to have slowed down but i did.


Glaucus said:
lol, my stance has nothing to do with because computers don't make mistakes computationally, I cant be much clearer. we have figures for deaths per million miles and such. these are all you need to know to compare safety.

average in usa 89million miles per death
tesla auto pilot version 1, 111million miles per death.

the death caused by the lorry has been fixed in the latest release for example.
let alone the more cameras installed on new tesla since October 10.

nothing about computers etc.

driverless cars are coming and it'll only continue to get safer.
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Hate to get all pernickety, but your linked article stated tesla's had done 47million miles, for one death. Do you have a source for this figure of 1,111?
 
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you do realise cars keep on traveling and as such mileage keeps increasing. to get a true picture we will need billions of miles.

Musk referred to the fact that Brown’s accident is the first known fatality that’s occurred, despite the fact that Tesla drivers have covered a cumulative 130 million miles while using Autopilot.





However, it stressed that so far authorities have found no reason to believe that there was any defect in the system or that Autopilot is otherwise unsafe to use.
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https://www.carkeys.co.uk/news/elon-musk-autopilot-could-have-saved-500-000-lives-last-year

and lol you getting all pie in the sky weirdess.

as said there's two reason,
your brain processes far more than you are aware of.
secondly bias, you will have slowed down many thousands of time for no reason and nothings happened, just because something happened this time. you fall into cognitive bias.
 
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Haha so just because the van's two left tyres were not in the lane, the system assumed the entire lane was clear???

I love seeing this thing fail. More idiots need to start buying these Teslas and let them do their crashing, hopefully insurance companies will stop going anywhere near them.
 
Glaucus said:
you do realise cars keep on traveling and as such mileage keeps increasing. to get a true picture we will need billions of miles.


https://www.carkeys.co.uk/news/elon-musk-autopilot-could-have-saved-500-000-lives-last-year

and lol you getting all pie in the sky weirdess.

as said there's two reason,
your brain processes far more than you are aware of.
secondly bias, you will have slowed down many thousands of time for no reason and nothings happened, just because something happened this time. you fall into cognitive bias.
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Thats a bit more like it, although again i'll take mr musk's claims still with a pinch of salt given his vested interest, one does wonder why him and his company are the only ones so far making such grandiose claims despite the old guard of the motor industry all looking into this.

As for pie in the sky, it does sound funny, i have no explemation for it, and hence why i'd be skeptical that if i cant figure out how i knew what to do, how exactly would you translate that into a machine knowing what to do.

I think we've ran this debate to death, i'm not convinced the tech is there yet and nor am i convinced by tesla, and its going to take a lot more than 1 company screaming its own praises from the hills before this tech becomes established.
 
perhaps because tesla is the only ones with such complicated stuff and with a fair number of cars, and tesla is the only one with access to the data, so where else do you want it to come from?.
other than assumedly the safety boards when there is an accident who have after investigating it say that it is safe and no reason not to use it.
 
asim18 said:
I love seeing this thing fail. More idiots need to start buying these Teslas and let them do their crashing, hopefully insurance companies will stop going anywhere near them.
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I' m just glad your in the minority who doesn't want to join us "idiots" in the future with our fancy self driving cars ;)
 
I have almost no interest in self driving cars whilst they retain the requirement for you to be in ultimate control.

Unless I can sleep in the back or play video games what is the point? If I have to sit in the drivers seat then I want to drive the car. And I suspect the point at which zero driver interaction at all or even monitoring is far far very away.

So I keep wondering why everyone likes this stuff so much.

Semi automatic stuff like traffic jam assist seems reasonably useful but if you need to sit and watch the road on the Motorway you may as well drive the car?
 
do you say the same about cruise control, or adaptive cruise control?
it makes life easier. Whats the point in those its not full self drive so I might as well just do it manually.

its a step to full driverless cars, its collects much needed data, it helps change the mind of the public and regulators.
 
Glaucus said:
do you say the same about cruise control, or adaptive cruise control?
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No, as they are different concepts.

it makes life easier. Whats the point in those its not full self drive so I might as well just do it manually.
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It makes life easier if it allows me to do things I cannot currently do whilst driving. Can I sit on my phone behind the wheel of a driverless car? No, I cannot. Can I do work? No, I cannot. Can I do anything really other than sit there looking through the windscreen and not holding the steering wheel?

What exactly is it offering me? It's boredom inducing until such time as it completely removes the need for any human interaction at all. Whilst I appreciate it takes time to get there, I'm not interested in buying products that are basically just development mules for that one day we might situation.

I don't expect you to get it - you don't even feel the need to own a car at all!
 
I don't see how its a different concept.
the system being talked about and you are talking about isn't true driverless its enhanced cruise control. it just does steering as well.

what does cruise control offer you?

accept I do own a car, and I've always had a work van.
 
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