Armchair Lawyers Part 2: Sacking a new staff member

[RaohNS]

New Query on What OcUK would do

As some of you may know I've had a very messy divorce and contact denial/alienation over the past 6yrs.

After separation I've been lumped paying 100% of all marital debts under threat of additional charges, court summons, bailiffs and HCEOs, be made bankrupt etc.

A little over a year ago I received a series of abrupt -> threat letters from SSE (energy company). Eventually after being faced with no other option I paid a sum of money to settle the JOINT debt (that was in both names). They had no record of exs address plus she moves very frequently to avoid other debt collection services.

Now, a letter came to my address in my exs sole name and as with all post to my address it gets opened (note parcels are always checked of course). This letter is from SSE trying to pay my ex a refund of the whole amount I had paid to "settle" and is 100% for the property and the monies I had paid. Eg amount tallies perfect ref the same address for the date it was paid.

I cannot call them until Wednesday. But given this joint debt was paid solely by me and can be evidenced I should be able to claim it back.

My step is going to be:
1) Contact SSE to explain circumstance
2) Provide proof I made the payment

If they refuse to refund MY money (which would certainly soften the blow of Xmas this year eg pay about half) I would then:

3) write a letter requesting payment in full within 28days
4) initiate legal proceedings plus ALL costs (my going rate for a flat day at Court is £250 inclusive of missed working hours)

What would everyone else do?

Note: No comments about "why are you opening someone else's post" please. Thanks

 

[Destination]

How much is the refund for?

-edit, for more info
did they send a cheque for the amount, or were they looking for the person/account details in order to refund the monies?

I think your first step is spot on
dear see, thx for the refund, you've made it out to the wrong person
as you will see from 'attached' the initial payment was by me
please refund to account x sort y, and post confirmation to the address you have already used.

 

[wildman]

hopefully the fired employees go the OP's house and take a rancid dump in is letter box............. multiple times.

 

[Uther]

Send them a text message.

"U R sacked" should do it.

Yes, on Christmas Eve, and then try to find a new one on a 'cleaning apprenticeship' for 20p an hour tops.

 

[Energize]

New Query on What OcUK would do

As some of you may know I've had a very messy divorce and contact denial/alienation over the past 6yrs.

After separation I've been lumped paying 100% of all marital debts under threat of additional charges, court summons, bailiffs and HCEOs, be made bankrupt etc.

A little over a year ago I received a series of abrupt -> threat letters from SSE (energy company). Eventually after being faced with no other option I paid a sum of money to settle the JOINT debt (that was in both names). They had no record of exs address plus she moves very frequently to avoid other debt collection services.

Now, a letter came to my address in my exs sole name and as with all post to my address it gets opened (note parcels are always checked of course). This letter is from SSE trying to pay my ex a refund of the whole amount I had paid to "settle" and is 100% for the property and the monies I had paid. Eg amount tallies perfect ref the same address for the date it was paid.

I cannot call them until Wednesday. But given this joint debt was paid solely by me and can be evidenced I should be able to claim it back.

My step is going to be:
1) Contact SSE to explain circumstance
2) Provide proof I made the payment

If they refuse to refund MY money (which would certainly soften the blow of Xmas this year eg pay about half) I would then:

3) write a letter requesting payment in full within 28days
4) initiate legal proceedings plus ALL costs (my going rate for a flat day at Court is £250 inclusive of missed working hours)

What would everyone else do?

Note: No comments about "why are you opening someone else's post" please. Thanks

I'd probably prepare for them to ask me why I was opening a letter addressed to someone else and have the ex involve the police over it.

 

[Destination]

I'd probably prepare for them to ask me why I was opening a letter addressed to someone else and have the ex involve the police over it.

I thought you were allowed to open post which arrived to your property?
Rather than by name?
I thought this was how things were differentiated?
Is this incorrect?

 

[RaohNS]

How much is the refund for?

-edit, for more info
did they send a cheque for the amount, or were they looking for the person/account details in order to refund the monies?

I think your first step is spot on
dear see, thx for the refund, you've made it out to the wrong person
as you will see from 'attached' the initial payment was by me
please refund to account x sort y, and post confirmation to the address you have already used.

Its a good amount low three figure. One that I struggled to pay myself also at the time. Not as bad as £3k in council tax that she refuses to pay and the council happily ignored the law for but that's another story.

I'd probably prepare for them to ask me why I was opening a letter addressed to someone else and have the ex involve the police over it.

Lol, if that were the case the police should take action on my ex who still has 3 of my pay slips, 2yrs worth of my pension statements and a few bank account details plus handing over a few personal documents that were admitted to being had that were then destroyed costing me itro £35ea to replace.

I thought you were allowed to open post which arrived to your property?
Rather than by name?
I thought this was how things were differentiated?
Is this incorrect?

Depends on circumstances. It wasn't actually me that opened it but a family member. If it goes to their house it gets opened.

 

[Greebo]

Big fine or up to 6 months inside. If it has somebody else's name on it, it is not legal to open it.

From the Postal Services Act 2000

84Interfering with the mail: general

(1)A person commits an offence if, without reasonable excuse, he—

(a)intentionally delays or opens a postal packet in the course of its transmission by post, or

(b)intentionally opens a mail-bag.

(2)Subsections (2) to (5) of section 83 apply to subsection (1) above as they apply to subsection (1) of that section.

(3)A person commits an offence if, intending to act to a person’s detriment and without reasonable excuse, he opens a postal packet which he knows or reasonably suspects has been incorrectly delivered to him.

(4)Subsections (2) and (3) of section 83 (so far as they relate to the opening of postal packets) apply to subsection (3) above as they apply to subsection (1) of that section.

(5)A person who commits an offence under subsection (1) or (3) shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months or to both

 

[RaohNS]

This is a funny place when you say:

Note: No comments about "why are you opening someone else's post" please. Thanks

And there are more comments about what you don't want telling than actual recommendations and answers.

I could argue that if SSE refunded the money they would be complicit in fraud/theft as they are knowingly or "legal term" 'ought to know' what they are doing is wrong.

The situation is: I've paid for something under threat that was a joint debt and now the entity is trying to refund one party of the total amount I paid.

 

[Destination]

Big fine or up to 6 months inside. If it has somebody else's name on it, it is not legal to open it.
From the Postal Services Act 2000
84Interfering with the mail: general
(1)A person commits an offence if, without reasonable excuse, he—
(a)intentionally delays or opens a postal packet in the course of its transmission by post, or
(b)intentionally opens a mail-bag.
(2)Subsections (2) to (5) of section 83 apply to subsection (1) above as they apply to subsection (1) of that section.
(3)A person commits an offence if, intending to act to a person’s detriment and without reasonable excuse, he opens a postal packet which he knows or reasonably suspects has been incorrectly delivered to him.
(4)Subsections (2) and (3) of section 83 (so far as they relate to the opening of postal packets) apply to subsection (3) above as they apply to subsection (1) of that section.
(5)A person who commits an offence under subsection (1) or (3) shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months or to both

I think you interpretation is incorrect.
If mail comes to your address, and has your address upon it, then it has been correctly delivered.
The law states you would have to prove detriment and without reasonable excuse.
If mail addressed to someone completely unknown comes to your house, and is delivered correctly to your house, then by opening it would will not have directly caused them detriment.
If you then destroy the mail when you find it to be important, or fail to return to sender once you know who the sender is, then you may be causing detriment.

So mail correctly delivered to your address can be opened in some circumstances. Opening the mail itself is not an offence.

Oddly enough, in the case of R, he ex is in line for money, and by opening that mail he might indeed get the money for himself. The detriment would be determined by whether or not she had any right to the money in the first place.

 

[Destination]

This is a funny place when you say:
And there are more comments about what you don't want telling than actual recommendations and answers.
I could argue that if SSE refunded the money they would be complicit in fraud/theft as they are knowingly or "legal term" 'ought to know' what they are doing is wrong.
The situation is: I've paid for something under threat that was a joint debt and now the entity is trying to refund one party of the total amount I paid.

I'd send your letter and exact copies of all previous details to SSE, and have them process it back into your name, looks like someone saw the joint account and has refunded to one name without actually checking the details.
Did they send a cheque, or were they looking for details of who to send the cheque to?

 

[djshauny1]

Given your previous thread about spying on employees to catch them out and recording what they do on the PC, its not surprising people will jump to conclusions of you being an unfair boss.

Recording them on the PC. Is that even legal?

 

[RaohNS]

I'd send your letter and exact copies of all previous details to SSE, and have them process it back into your name, looks like someone saw the joint account and has refunded to one name without actually checking the details.
Did they send a cheque, or were they looking for details of who to send the cheque to?

Thankyou. It is most likely this situation. What I find a kick in the teeth (and not for the first time) is that i have paid a sum of money under multiple threats, only to then have the money refunded to the other party who paid £0.00.

I had this issue with HMRC not too long after separation where they would say we will: Instruct legal department, make you bankrupt etc so I paid a large sum of money even though I was not in the household or the recipient of the money! The best part was once I paid off half as HMRC can split it down the middle, I then got a letter demanding immediate payment in full of the other amount

In other words, shed not paid a bean in 3yrs almost and didn't have any such threat made to her. I also know that 6yrs on not a penny of that money has been repaid (as every year I get a letter stating what is outstanding (as both NI numbers are linked to the debt). I've often thought about contacting them to demand money back if they wont enforce the other party to pay.

Sorry for rambling, no they sent a letter stating oops it seems you have paid us too much then details of payment then in bold how much they want to repay to ex (despite it being my money).

 

[Kenai]

Recording them on the PC. Is that even legal?

That didn't matter because they were only family.

0_o

 

[Destination]

Thankyou. It is most likely this situation. What I find a kick in the teeth (and not for the first time) is that i have paid a sum of money under multiple threats, only to then have the money refunded to the other party who paid £0.00.

I had this issue with HMRC not too long after separation where they would say we will: Instruct legal department, make you bankrupt etc so I paid a large sum of money even though I was not in the household or the recipient of the money! The best part was once I paid off half as HMRC can split it down the middle, I then got a letter demanding immediate payment in full of the other amount

In other words, shed not paid a bean in 3yrs almost and didn't have any such threat made to her. I also know that 6yrs on not a penny of that money has been repaid (as every year I get a letter stating what is outstanding (as both NI numbers are linked to the debt). I've often thought about contacting them to demand money back if they wont enforce the other party to pay.

Sorry for rambling, no they sent a letter stating oops it seems you have paid us too much then details of payment then in bold how much they want to repay to ex (despite it being my money).

Is your solicitor not able to address this insane situation?

 

[simpletom]

Why don't you try employing someone part time to look after your HR instead of posting on a forum that your going to sack someone?

I'm sure there are companies out there that act like umbrella HR and look after lot's of little companies like yourself that can deal with this situation and inform the employee also.

Nah, that'd be way too professional.

 

[Brizzles]

4 pages is too many to read.

Can't we just have a GD Poll and sort it properly

• Sack
• Don't Sack
• Nut Sack

 

[RaohNS]

Is your solicitor not able to address this insane situation?

Solicitors are absolutely useless. I did use a solicitor for one thing when I first started out and they did absolutely nothing over 4months. Complete waste if money.

Straight John Bull is that after separation women/mums are virtually untouchable. If I could start on the stories I've had the last 6years it would be a post as long as a book saga.

 

[RaohNS]

4 pages is too many to read.

Can't we just have a GD Poll and sort it properly

• Sack
• Don't Sack
• Nut Sack

no pancakes?

 

[RaohNS]

Quick update:

Half my Xmas will be paid for in 15 working days

Very helpful guy on the phones. Said it should have had my name on there. Can see it was made from my account (went quiet when he read the payment reference \o.

So I should be able to recoup some money now

No arrests made for opening someone else's post as it should have come to me in the first place