Angela Merkel and her decisions

[tom_e]

When we were in Bavaria recently the politzei made my son take off his cap before entering a beer festival.
Everyone was walking around in lederhosen, which was seen as perfectly acceptable, but caps were verboten
Still, their country, their rules...

You're normally asked to remove caps when entering drinking establishments here as well.

 

[Uther]

You're normally asked to remove caps when entering drinking establishments here as well.

Outside?

 

[Deleted member 66701]

Outside?

My three local pubs have banned chavs so yes.

 

[Tefal]

Outside?

Any large event whete they dont want thier cctv made useless

 

[Uther]

Any large event whete they dont want thier cctv made useless

Interesting, and makes perfect sense.

 

[a1ex2001]

We're debating religious dress, not the amount of pigmentation in one's skin, so drop the race card. The word 'racism' is over-used to the point that it has lost all meaning, and people now have to disguise it under the new term 'cultural appropriation'.

IMO, in countries where church and state is separate, religion should never be forced on others (like what happened to me in my last workplace). Religious dress and religious activity should be confined to places of worship, in their own homes / not in public.

I'm all for RE being taught to kids, but it has to be on all major religions and impartial. Objective is the key, not subjective. Under no circumstances are kids to be indoctrinated. They can make up their own mind when they hit 16-18, like with being able to vote, drive a car, buy a lottery ticket, drink at the bar, have a shag etc

Disclaimer: I'm white, but far from middle class. Bottom 10% of earners

You played the racist and race card I merely pointed out that a significant number of middle class white people are scared of the veil for some reason which I don't think we can deny.....

 

[helpimcrap]

Besides people - it's not racism, it's 'religious intolerance'.

A white, black, Asian etc person can be follow Christianity, Islam, Buddhism etc.

Racism only comes into it when they are prejudiced based purely on skin type and colour.

 

[Sasahara]

Besides people - it's not racism, it's 'religious intolerance'.

And is religious intolerance a bad thing? Given religion in a lot of cases (not all) can be a highly intolerant it seems only fair to to offer some back.

 

[Rimsy]

But i am yet to bump into and speak to anyone in a full face vile because they tend to avoid contact, run around with their kids in tow and tend to barge past you as if they have some god given right of way.

Yeah I think the last part of your sentence is sort of considered the exact issue that's trying to be dealt with. Albeit too late.

 

[Angilion]

her popularity is starting to wane, but have you known a leader's popularity NOT wane after 3 successive terms? I'm sure I read somewhere the other day that a recent poll (lol) still showed 60% of voters would vote for her; sorry the citation escapes me. We'll find out if she wins a record-equalling forth term I suppose, but this idea she's a nutcase or something is absolute rag nonsense.

B@

"would vote for them" and "they are popular" aren't necessarily the same thing even if the poll is meaningful.

Angela Merkel has a characteristic that's very appealing to voters - competence. Voting for a country's leader shouldn't be just a popularity contest. "I don't much like her and I think she's badly wrong on one major policy but she's done a very good job on most of what a leader does" is a possible reason for voting for her.

Right now, if we voted for PM I might well vote for Theresa May even though I think she's an authoritarian wannabee despot because I think she's the most competent candidate for handling Brexit. Or anything else apart from freedom, privacy and online security. I wouldn't like voting for her, but my perception of her as significantly more capable than the alternatives might well tip me that way.

 

[Amp34]

No, you can't do that... you do that and bikers will start wearing bandannas and leather caps like in 'Murica - It'll be awful!!!


And if their society also deems it acceptable to kill children in settlement of honour?
But they're not in 'their' society, are they? They're in ours.
We have to abide by their conventions when in their countries. Why do they not have to abide by ours when they're here?


Then they should go read the Qur'an, then and show me where it says, "thou shalt dress thy womenfolk as Ninjas, for they should go unseen, unheard, unsung and unspoken... "
It's not an attack on Islam, because Islam has no such thing (AFAIK). It's a cultural thing which does not gel with the culture of certain other countries.

When you say "their conventions" you mean countries right? Not religion?

In which case do you believe we should be more like Saudi Arabia and Iran where a dress code is forced on people? Most specifically women, which a veil ban would disproportionately affect.

Other predominantly muslim countries don't particularly have strong personal conventions that are much different to most western countries. I.e. don't walk around naked/topless.

But agreed, it is a cultural thing, and a thing that should not be forced on anyone, just like pretty much all clothing related situations. We should put pressure on those countries that force women to wear veils to try and persuade them it's not a good idea, but banning veils in the west is not a good example to lead, because we are doing exactly the same thing they are - prescribing a certain dress code on women.

 

[B@Th*nG]

"would vote for them" and "they are popular" aren't necessarily the same thing even if the poll is meaningful.

Angela Merkel has a characteristic that's very appealing to voters - competence. Voting for a country's leader shouldn't be just a popularity contest. "I don't much like her and I think she's badly wrong on one major policy but she's done a very good job on most of what a leader does" is a possible reason for voting for her.

Right now, if we voted for PM I might well vote for Theresa May even though I think she's an authoritarian wannabee despot because I think she's the most competent candidate for handling Brexit. Or anything else apart from freedom, privacy and online security. I wouldn't like voting for her, but my perception of her as significantly more capable than the alternatives might well tip me that way.

Fair point, but that does nothing to change the fact that the average brexiteers view point of her is different to the reality, does it?

B@

 

[helpimcrap]

And is religious intolerance a bad thing? Given religion in a lot of cases (not all) can be a highly intolerant it seems only fair to to offer some back.

Within reason. It annoys me when the press splash it about and the average person thinks they are being labeled racist when far from it.
It's give and take, a little bit of consideration and respect.

I'm an atheist with little time for religion however people can believe in any imaginary friends they want if it makes them happy. As long as they abide by the rules.

 

[RDM]

You played the racist and race card I merely pointed out that a significant number of middle class white people are scared of the veil for some reason which I don't think we can deny.....

That it is a very visible indicator of a very regressive approach to women's rights?

 

[No1newts]

It's election pandering, she is (thankfully) extremely liberal and this will be shelved when she gets in power after being declared "illegal"

Hopefully she stays in, nice to see a steady hand and common sense in charge

 

[Amp34]

That it is a very visible indicator of a very regressive approach to women's rights?

And banning an item of clothing women wear isn't also a very regressive approach to womens rights?

 

[RDM]

And banning an item of clothing women wear isn't also a very regressive approach to womens rights?

It is, but so is doing nothing. There are some very strong liberal reasons why you can oppose the veil so painting it purely as a racism/religious intolerance issue is lazy.

It isn't an easy issue to deal with but one of the failings of liberalism (and I say this as a liberal) is the tolerance of views that are deeply illiberal. Supporting the status quo means supporting a system that is deeply sexist and deeply homophobic. The Casey report pretty much shows that we are letting lots of people down by not challenging certain views.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

You act as if banning it is doing any good for those who are in the position to choose to wear it and also those who dont have a choice but to wear it.

Like i said, banning does nothing for women. It punishes them for not following your rules and forces their oppressors to punish them for breaking theirs if they do follow the ban.

The ban is lazy by nature and only serves to harm those without the choice but to wear a veil. It is not a step forward.

You've got to be an idiot to think putting restrictions on women oppressed by men is the solution to their problems. Restrictions should be put on the oppressors. The problem is too complex to be solved by a 'cure all, idiot pleaser, one liner law'.

 

[Scrutinize]

.

I'm an atheist with little time for religion however people can believe in any imaginary friends they want if it makes them happy. As long as they abide by the rules.

Sorry but that is really offensive. If you don't believe in it fine but stop there. Now you are just discriminating against religious people and groups. Why do you hate them so much?

 

[MeEsH BaKkA]

If Angela Merkel could displace the migrants from Germany she has invited, by making things less comfortable for them... it would almost seem like a brilliant way of waging economic warfare on Europe...