Toblerone, minimum wage & brexit

[Efour]

The pinches you are feeling in your pockets is more accountable to the diminished worth of a post brexit currency.

We can come back in a year to discuss the knock on effects of the rise.

Also you should probably reassess your future career choices when applying to university, maybe even ask yourself is it worth paying that much for potentially life long debt... Is a degree really nessacary in your field? Or is it just a gamble like most things


Maybe ask yourself also why do we have to pay for further and higher education in the uk in the first place? Isn't it an investment for the countries future anyway? So long as you don't do media studies.
..

 

[malachi]

The pinches you are feeling in your pockets is more accountable to the diminished worth of a post brexit currency.

We can come back in a year to discuss the knock on effects of the rise.

Also you should probably reassess your future career choices when applying to university, maybe even ask yourself is it worth paying that much for potentially life long debt... Is a degree really nessacary in your field? Or is it just a gamble like most things


Maybe ask yourself also why do we have to pay for further and higher education in the uk in the first place? Isn't it an investment for the countries future anyway? So long as you don't do media studies.
..

Would be a good choice if many followed suite but we still have people going to uni just for the sake if it not because they want to learn something for their career.

Then again, I cant blame them if a degree is an entry level requirement for an Call Center role.

 

[placeholder]

The pinches you are feeling in your pockets is more accountable to the diminished worth of a post brexit currency.

We can come back in a year to discuss the knock on effects of the rise.

Also you should probably reassess your future career choices when applying to university, maybe even ask yourself is it worth paying that much for potentially life long debt... Is a degree really nessacary in your field? Or is it just a gamble like most things


Maybe ask yourself also why do we have to pay for further and higher education in the uk in the first place? Isn't it an investment for the countries future anyway? So long as you don't do media studies.
..

In my situation I gained my qualifications prior to the introduction of NMW. I then worked in a low paying job while attempting to enter my chosen field. I was paid below the NMW level when doing this (prior to its introduction) and I was fine with this because I wanted to work. The market set the value of the job I was doing and I accepted it.

I then moved into working in a more appropriate job for my qualifications and have recently taken a new job which does have prospects for significant advancement. I AM doing what I can about my own situation. Nothing was handed to me.

The fact remains that a bunch of people worked in jobs paying £x prior to the introduction of the NMW and now the country has decided that my job remains worth the exact same as it was but their jobs are increasingly worth more. I work for my local council. I work in Strategic Procurement and my job is what it is. The councils do not offer up pay rises at my level because they are continually having in increase the wages of the cleaners, domestics, cooks, school assistants etc etc.

To give you an example a cleaner was paid lets say £7 an hour, while a cleaner in charge was paid £8 (random figures I can't remember the exact amounts). The person on £7 an hour with no responsibilities benefitted from the NMW increase with no changes to their duties and are now paid the same as the cleaner in charge who has the responsibilities. Both were happy to work at their chosen level previously but now there is resentment as the cleaner in charge is now effectively doing the extra duties for free.

That scenario cannot be right but its happening up and down the country particularly in local government. Its easy to say just change jobs but for many reasons its not that simple for most people.

 

[MikeTheNative]

Would be a good choice if many followed suite but we still have people going to uni just for the sake if it not because they want to learn something for their career.

Then again, I cant blame them if a degree is an entry level requirement for an Call Center role.

It also doesn't help that secondary schools are geared up to get you to uni as more places looks good on them. Doesn't matter if you don't know what you want to do or if it's the best thing for you they still recommend it. After I told my Sixth Form I wasn't going they dropped all interest in my future and just pointed towards the career wales woman's office, who was actually quite helpful.

 

[krisboats]

No i do get it.

I do not undestand why you attack those workers that are going to get the increase instead of those employers that are cutting you short.

Why Always go for the lowest hanging fruit

This guys example he gets paid 7.50 on one site but ten on Another....
Whos being ripped off.

Why dont you ask your employers why you havent got a pay raise over the past X years. Why have you settled for it all this time but only got upset when somone else has been given a break.

i cant do question marks on this stupid keyboard \\

yeah its Classic socialist redistribution of wealth. I appreciate i have a very different Outlook on it compared to most on here. But thats good for discussion.

I havent attacked anyone on minimum wage. Its not my choice to tell people who to be annoyed at, its theirs. I said its okay to be annoyed about the situation.

My company have said i wasnt getting a payrise because i was still paid above minimum wage. My wage was negotiated prior to my starting and they're well known for cutting costs wherever possible. Then minimum wage jumped twice in very big steps from 6.50 to 6.80 then to 7.25.

Unfotunately most other people in my role were paid far less than me, some even doing it for minimum wage. So my requests for a payrise were basically compared to others in my role and the suggestion informally laughed at. It doesnt help that i'm the senior position for my company on site and so to the people above me.... people who very rarely visit sites to see how people work but make all the decisions regarding wage i'm basically just an employee number on a sheet and if my wages are higher than those of other numbers on the sheet it wont get changed. The perk of working freely without constant supervision is also my jobs downfall.

I also havent waited to be annoyed about this. I was annoyed when it first changed and have gotten a little more annoyed each time the gap closed. I'm currently at a point where i could go shelf stack at tesco and see no financial difference so i have no choice but to leave.

 

[malachi]

It also doesn't help that secondary schools are geared up to get you to uni as more places looks good on them. Doesn't matter if you don't know what you want to do or if it's the best thing for you they still recommend it. After I told my Sixth Form I wasn't going they dropped all interest in my future and just pointed towards the career wales woman's office, who was actually quite helpful.

I agree. Its all part of the system a lot of people fall into.

Secondary schools get as many into uni as possible, they go to uni taking out student loans, leave uni with debt which most never pay off and they still end up in a MW job anyway but the government still profits because of the loans.

Not much benefit to the student but £££'s for the governments back pocket.

 

[Efour]

ItSorry if I came across more ******* than usual. Was not trying to offend individuals. Just making it lively.

 

[krooton]

I havent attacked anyone on minimum wage. Its not my choice to tell people who to be annoyed at, its theirs. I said its okay to be annoyed about the situation.

My company have said i wasnt getting a payrise because i was still paid above minimum wage. My wage was negotiated prior to my starting and they're well known for cutting costs wherever possible. Then minimum wage jumped twice in very big steps from 6.50 to 6.80 then to 7.25.

Unfotunately most other people in my role were paid far less than me, some even doing it for minimum wage. So my requests for a payrise were basically compared to others in my role and the suggestion informally laughed at. It doesnt help that i'm the senior position for my company on site and so to the people above me.... people who very rarely visit sites to see how people work but make all the decisions regarding wage i'm basically just an employee number on a sheet and if my wages are higher than those of other numbers on the sheet it wont get changed. The perk of working freely without constant supervision is also my jobs downfall.

I also havent waited to be annoyed about this. I was annoyed when it first changed and have gotten a little more annoyed each time the gap closed. I'm currently at a point where i could go shelf stack at tesco and see no financial difference so i have no choice but to leave.

Not to be harsh, but just because you were able to haggle better pay for the same role than other people, them getting a bump up due to NMW increase doesn't entitle you to one too.

Also, if you are doing so much better than them, why hasn't you pay increased over the past 2 years that the NMW has? 2014-2015 was a 3% increase, 2015-2016 was a 7% increase. You pushed for more pay initially, usually this comes with selling yourself and your potential. If you haven't been achieving that potential, why would they increase your pay?

I get a statuatory 2% increase each year just for doing my job. I do go above and beyond, track and record my achievements, and present these back at my end of year appraisal as justification for more pay increases, which have ranged between 8-10% over the past 3 years doing the same role.

 

[McPhee]

Can't say I'm offended by the National Living Wage.

That's probably got a lot to do with the fact I don't work for a **** employer though. Our wages have risen in line with (or ahead of) NMW/NLW increases for a while now. I recently got promoted and my new wage will increase by the same amount (~4%) too if the current trend continues.

 

[placeholder]

Not to be harsh, but just because you were able to haggle better pay for the same role than other people, them getting a bump up due to NMW increase doesn't entitle you to one too.

Also, if you are doing so much better than them, why hasn't you pay increased over the past 2 years that the NMW has? 2014-2015 was a 3% increase, 2015-2016 was a 7% increase. You pushed for more pay initially, usually this comes with selling yourself and your potential. If you haven't been achieving that potential, why would they increase your pay?

I get a statuatory 2% increase each year just for doing my job. I do go above and beyond, track and record my achievements, and present these back at my end of year appraisal as justification for more pay increases, which have ranged between 8-10% over the past 3 years doing the same role.

Which is fantastic if you work for a company where you have that option open to you. If you work for a local authority as many do then this doesn't really work and you will see stark examples of peoples wages being bumped up by the NMW while others remain static.

Ultimately we all have the right to walk away if we don't like it but that doesn't make it hugely fair and neither is it realistic to do so.

I have no objection to the NMW if differentials were maintained but I'm many cases they are not and for many they jobs become devalued in the pecking order with each increase.

 

[krooton]

Which is fantastic if you work for a company where you have that option open to you. If you work for a local authority as many do then this doesn't really work and you will see stark examples of peoples wages being bumped up by the NMW while others remain static.

Ultimately we all have the right to walk away if we don't like it but that doesn't make it hugely fair and neither is it realistic to do so.

I have no objection to the NMW if differentials were maintained but I'm many cases they are not and for many they jobs become devalued in the pecking order with each increase.

If differentials were maintained, it would render the increase moot. If everything goes up, proportionate value stays static.

A 7% increase on a £15k salary would take it up to £16k, £80 more a month before tax.

One wouldn't expect their to be huge difference in difficulty, required skill, or responsibility between roles with a £1k difference, especially as the higher up you go in pay ranges, the smaller % that £1k becomes.

 

[Efour]

There is no difference
Bottom rung earn x Inc from ranks supervisors
Middle manager earns y
Company director or owner earns Z

It makes a lot of sense when you say you work in govt. But that is not a normal employee and not really subject to the market laws

 

[Deleted member 66701]

but we still have people going to uni just for the sake if it

What's wrong with "learning for learning's sake"? Why is the measure of success how much you earn?

University still enriches a person even if not monetarily.

I'm currently at a point where i could go shelf stack at tesco and see no financial difference so i have no choice but to leave.

So why don't you?

 

[Orionaut]

That's a classic logical fallacy - the evidence doesn't support that statement.

There are lots of articles saying it will, but it's all scaremongering by business owners/leaders/wealth hoarders. There is practically zero empirical evidence showing min wage has a significant impact on employment. Reminds me of this:-

The irony of that is that a lot of it actually turned out to be an accurate prediction :/

Not necessarily making any moral point here, simply that our current era of cheap manufactured goods only exists because globalisation has enabled "Consumers" to take advantage of all these practices operating elsewhere whilst our own industries have collapsed and vast numbers of people have been forced into gutter grade (But safe and with loads of rights!) employment. (Or Not! )

 

[hurfdurf]

The irony of that is that a lot of it actually turned out to be an accurate prediction :/

Not necessarily making any moral point here, simply that our current era of cheap manufactured goods only exists because globalisation has enabled "Consumers" to take advantage of all these practices operating elsewhere whilst our own industries have collapsed and vast numbers of people have been forced into gutter grade (But safe and with loads of rights!) employment. (Or Not! )

A worldwide revolution is needed. In this day and age, no one should go hungry or cold. We are seeing the death throws of capitalism just begin, as automation creeps in, it will get really really really bad.

 

[malachi]

What's wrong with "learning for learning's sake"? Why is the measure of success how much you earn?

Because its not going to "learning for learning's sake" its going to get status to say "Oh! Look!! I have a degree!!" and expect an high paid job.

It's that attitude which created the term "Mickey Mouse Degrees"

 

[Energize]

That's a classic logical fallacy - the evidence doesn't support that statement.

I would suggest that you don't understand what a fallacy is. It is a sound argument echoed by nobel prize winning economists.

It is simple mathematics, supported by empirical evidence. Businesses do not employ people at a net loss.

You arent seeing it at all or are just choosing to ignore it. You work for enjoyment of life, whether thats enjoying your job or enjoying the money you get from it. If you train, get skilled and get a good wage then you'll get a higher quality of life (defined by less financial pressure, more money for toys etc) than someone on minimum wage. As minimum wage increases and the cost of items gets higher your quality of life GOES DOWN if you dont get a payrise.

Take my own position for example. I've worked in my supervisory role for a while now. I quite enjoy the position and the job has its perks but i started at 7.25 when the minimum wage was 5.80. Minimum wage is now 7.25 and when that happened my wage increased to 7.50. If my wage had increased proportionally over the years i'd be on 9.00 per hour right now not 7.50, yet my role hasnt changed and the same work is expected of me.

Over a month thats a couple of hundred pounds more spending power conpared to what i have for what is exactly the same job as it was when i started.

Its definitely something to be unhappy about and is why i'm looking for a new job. To add insult to injury i'm paid £10ph with the same company on a different site contract as a basic worker for an hour a day. If my original job paid properly i could be working 1 hour less per day and getting the same amount as i do working both contracts, which means more time to fix cars and do stuff i enjoy.

Honestly you've not got much to be unhappy about, you are producing the same amount of work as before and being paid the same amount for it, you are no worse off. Minimum wage does not cause inflation as some seem to believe. You've allowed yourself to stagnate at a low skill/pay level.

 

[krisboats]

Not to be harsh, but just because you were able to haggle better pay for the same role than other people, them getting a bump up due to NMW increase doesn't entitle you to one too.

Also, if you are doing so much better than them, why hasn't you pay increased over the past 2 years that the NMW has? 2014-2015 was a 3% increase, 2015-2016 was a 7% increase. You pushed for more pay initially, usually this comes with selling yourself and your potential. If you haven't been achieving that potential, why would they increase your pay?

I get a statuatory 2% increase each year just for doing my job. I do go above and beyond, track and record my achievements, and present these back at my end of year appraisal as justification for more pay increases, which have ranged between 8-10% over the past 3 years doing the same role.

I'm in a supervisory role that involves staff training, inventory, interviews and wages. My company simply doesnt do pay rises for middle management and the other staff rates of pay only came to light when i had to supervise and retrain staff at another site. My company is terrible at assessing wages and i dont even have a yearly appraisal. In fact, in 8 years i simply havent had one. I won employee of the month this year, got a certificate and everything so your presumption that i dont push myself or work hard, while mildly insulting, is simply not the case.

Sounds like you have a very fair employer. Sadly that isnt the case for everyone, which is why i'm leaving.

 

[krisboats]

Honestly you've not got much to be unhappy about, you are producing the same amount of work as before and being paid the same amount for it, you are no worse off. Minimum wage does not cause inflation as some seem to believe. You've allowed yourself to stagnate at a low skill/pay level.

If the cost of living has increased since i started then, quite simply, i am worse off. I'm being paid proportionately less for the same job when compared against the cost of living. This isn't the only company i work for, it is simply my reliable monthly minimum job. I'm purely using it as an example of an unfair employer. Seems a lot of people dont seem to realise these types of companies exist.

 

[Energize]

If the cost of living has increased since i started then, quite simply, i am worse off. I'm being paid proportionately less for the same job when compared against the cost of living. This isn't the only company i work for, it is simply my reliable monthly minimum job. I'm purely using it as an example of an unfair employer. Seems a lot of people dont seem to realise these types of companies exist.

The fact that your living costs have increased doesn't mean the business can afford to pay you more! If you don't actually generate any more money for the company though, why is there an expectation of a pay rise?