Toblerone, minimum wage & brexit

Efour said:
so you, i mean your mate didn't get a pay rise, but a few others did to bring them up to his standard. Working as intended my socialist comrade.
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How is that working as intended? If he's paid more because he's more experienced/qualified/better at his job, then why shouldn't he be rewarded for that with a pay rise inline with that of his less experienced/qualified/less performance colleagues? Where's the incentive to gain experience/qualifications/work hard when someone fresh out of school with no GCSEs doing the bare minimum gets paid the same?

amigafan2003 said:
Wage cost only makes up a very small cost of manufactured goods. I remember seeing a report by Ford a few years back that only something like 3% of the cost of a new car is a result of wages, so even if the wage increased by 5%, that's only 5% on top of 3%, so a 5% increase in the wage bill only result in the cost of the end product increasing by 0.15%.
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Where does the cost of materials come from?

From extracting the raw ore for the metal, to the finished car, everywhere along that chain where there's someone on minimum wage, the cost will be bumped up a little. So although the direct staffing cost increase to e.g. ford, toblerone etc will be minimal, there may well be a knock on effect from elsewhere
 
Some companies take the money from elsewhere. I think it was either Tescos or Asda that covered most of the increase in the minimum wage by reducing the hourly rate for overtime so their overall yearly wage bill stayed the same.
 
Minimum wage is a socialist self-destructive measure, it always looks good until you actually learn what it does (IE nothing for the people making it and makes any job previously at this level pointless).
 
Greebo said:
Some companies take the money from elsewhere. I think it was either Tescos or Asda that covered most of the increase in the minimum wage by reducing the hourly rate for overtime so their overall yearly wage bill stayed the same.
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Tesco pay has always been a good slice above minimum wage afaik and overtime/sunday pay was reduced to normal rates because the original purpose of 'incentive to get people to work them' was no longer needed as they became among the most requested days to work.
 
amigafan2003 said:
They should, but they don't. It's the same when the holiday entitlement went up by three days a few years back. How many companies added three days to employees holiday entitlement where they were already above the legal entitlement? I'd hazard a guess at none, so instead the gap just narrowed. Still, it's better for the floor to be raised rather than seeing the ceiling move ever further away.
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I'd hazard that a lot of them pay lip service to a review (should we do this? No. Okay.). Honestly it depends on the company, if they think they can get away with it then they'll probably let those above NLW take the hit. If however they're a truly progressive organisation (they do exist, kind of) or if they consider their pay rates to be a unique selling point, they should adjust. You are absolutely right though, most won't.
 
Minimum wage is an interesting one at the minute, with the recent large hikes under the living wage moniker it is fast closing the gap between minimum wage jobs and a lot of entry/mid level roles where wages have been stagnant for nearly a decade now. The people in the middle are really going to feel the pinch with the first fall in living standards in living memory.
 
Production costs for most things have a fairly small amount to do with labour costs for those on minimum wage. For starters, there is profit for retailers, distributors and manufacturers, the marketing, R&D, distribution costs, the ingredients costs, and costs of more senior staff in the process, overheads such as machine running costs, factory rental/warehouse, electricity, HR/Admin/legal.

Where exceptions exist due to high unskilled labur requirements, these products are not financially viable when ,manufactured in developed countries, manufacturing is conducted in places like China and are also automated.



That is why it is perfectly feasible to increase minimum labour costs substantially without adversely affecting the companies or living costs. To put things in perspective Federal minimum wage in the Us is around $7 but many states and counties have minimum wage laws of $13-15 dollars, and recently several states voted to increases minimum wage to $17-20. None of these states and counties are adversely affected by these minimum wage laws, which is why they have been widely adopted and get god support.
 
Haggisman said:
How is that working as intended? If he's paid more because he's more experienced/qualified/better at his job, then why shouldn't he be rewarded for that with a pay rise inline with that of his less experienced/qualified/less performance colleagues? Where's the incentive to gain experience/qualifications/work hard when someone fresh out of school with no GCSEs doing the bare minimum gets paid the same?
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There is none hence why its a minimum wage job. When you get bored of it or unmotivated you leave and the next school leaver with no qualifications takes over exactly like you said.

There is a reason they are minimum wage jobs because they are easy to be replaced with minimum disruption and training. There is no real progression no rewards from pay its a flat rate, thanks for coming, wage.

When you are in a job where your skill and expertise is harder to acquire or replace then you earn more than minimum wage > the sky is the limit.

A trained monkey can do 80% of minimum wage jobs.

on the flip side Minimum wage is also used as a trap to which is the lowest possible pay an employer can give legally.
 
Efour said:
There is none hence why its a minimum wage job. When you get bored of it or unmotivated you leave and the next school leaver with no qualifications takes over exactly like you said.
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You're missing the point; it wasn't a minimum wage job until the minimum wage was increased.

If the minimum wage was increased to £20/hr, would everyone currently earning £20/hr be doing a minimum wage job? (Literally yes, but you see what i'm getting at)
 
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ok well "50p" above minimum wage job is still pretty low on the ladder.
yeah i guess it shows that the employer considers it easily replaceable if hes flying just above a uk minimum wage.

Also.

Why compare yourself to the next guy, the only person whos pay matters is His own.
yeah he didn't get a pay rise because the gov. forced pay rises on all the other staff artificially.
If the employer was ethical maybe they would increase everyone's by a few pence too. Of course that won't happen but why blame the other guy the business owner is the only one responsible. The wage increase will be reclaimed one way or another. Why does he feel entitled to a payrise if he has been earning above minimum wage all this time, he hasnt lost money, hes still getting paid EXACTLY the same ammount.

There is always going to be cases where people riding the low pay line have this happen to them but at the same time there's places where people do work for £ 3 quid an hour and are being destroyed by it.

Would you really want to see the UK with no minimum wage at all?
Free market anarchy and exploitation of anyone.
Yeah a few people are screwed, but many more gain a smear of security.

Living wage is a whole nother ball game.

why do the words minimum wage evoke such passion lol
 
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Haggisman said:
You're missing the point; it wasn't a minimum wage job until the minimum wage was increased.

If the minimum wage was increased to £20/hr, would everyone currently earning £20/hr be doing a minimum wage job? (Literally yes, but you see what i'm getting at)
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well yeah but the economy of the UK would adjust over a few months of pure anarchy :P and beer would be 20 quid a pint and a bag of chips 10 quid.

Its just words....
 
I did my share of low paid jobs before there was a minimum wage I now work in a decent job that pays £24k a year but its value is being diminished as the jobs I used to do creep ever closer to the wage Im on just now. Obviously I continue to attempt to climb up the ladder but it irks that the job that was once worth significantly more than the "easily replaced" jobs has the differential eeked away with each passing minimum wage rise. Once you get past a certain point the difference is such that it doesn't matter but there are many caught tin the bracket who never get the comparable rise to maintain differentials but don't earn massive money either.
 
in a fantasy land If everyone earns a comfortable level of money wouldn't we start defining our lives by other interesting ways more than i earn 30k or i drive this BMW?

yeah im a bit of a socialist at heart id like to see everyone paid equally or not at all (startrek) and working in professions they take a little enjoyment from.
 
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I now work in a decent job that pays £24k a year but its value is being diminished
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I don't understand this viewpoint, unless it's similar to those that are suddenly unhappy with their car when next door gets a new shiny BMW.

Stop looking at other people and what they are getting and you'll be much happier.

Efour said:
in a fantasy land If everyone earns a comfortable level of money wouldn't we start defining our lives by other interesting ways more than i earn 30k or i drive this BMW?
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My thinking exactly - we'd be able to move past employment being solely for monetary gain and be able to explore work that benefits society as a whole instead. Social care for one would improve on top of a high min wage. This is the ethos behind the Swiss (and other progressive countries looking to) introducing a guaranteed citizens income.
 
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amigafan2003 said:
I don't understand this viewpoint, unless it's similar to those that are suddenly unhappy with their car when next door gets a new shiny BMW.

Stop looking at other people and what they are getting and you'll be much happier.
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Its nothing to do with that, its simply the devaluation of my job. I went to Uni, I placed myself in debt and I worked hard in order to do as well as I possibly could. My £24k a year job places me at a certain point to reflect that when that job was £x more than the "lowly unskilled job" that I could have got straight away.

I don't begrudge the person who does the menial work a decent wage if my wage went up too but mine doesn't. My job that was valued at £5-7 an hour above the lower paid jobs a few years back is now worth only a couple of quid more despite both jobs being exactly the same.
 
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