Truck crashes into Christmas market in Berlin

Participant · 20 Dec 2016 at 14:59

Tummy said:
I'm once again exasperated with this futile attempt to stop these threads from becoming muslim bashing.

Not all muslims are to blame for the actions of a few terrorists, extremists who hide behind religion. In the same way not all Christians are to blame when a Christian kills people in an abortion clinic. Not all refugee's are terrorists/extremists, many are trying to escape those people.

I like this forum, but it is so off putting reading some of the 'views' expressed here, such hatred for entire sections of people based on nothing but their creed, birthplace, et cetera.

So meh, I'm done.

It's a huge tragedy what happened in Germany. Solidarity in the face of adversity. Worrying about terrorism means that they are winning, dividing people means that they are winning.

How do we stop the attacks then? Or do we just accept it as the price of a tolerant and liberal society?

mid_gen · 20 Dec 2016 at 15:01

dowie said:
I've not claimed you can, in fact I'm stating exactly that. Thus the issue with Sharia courts and the 'choice' to use them. Therefore a different approach is necessary - including monitoring them and shutting some down if necessary.

You can't shut them down. How do you even monitor them? If people want to hold these arbitration sessions they'll hold them in private, in their own homes. It's futile to even try. All you can do is make sure that people who feel they are being mistreated know where to go for help.

Avenged7Fold · 20 Dec 2016 at 15:03

Participant said:
How do we stop the attacks then? Or do we just accept it as the price of a tolerant and liberal society?

We certainly dont stop them by labelling every Muslim and refugee as an extremist. That sort of thinking is what seems to have aided the extremist recruitment more than anything else.

Create a them vs us attitude and chucking innocent people into team 'them' only does the terrorist favours.

mid_gen · 20 Dec 2016 at 15:06

Participant said:
How do we stop the attacks then? Or do we just accept it as the price of a tolerant and liberal society?

Not engaging in military escapades across the Middle East and regime change games would seem like a good place to start.

dowie · 20 Dec 2016 at 15:13

mid_gen said:
You can't shut them down.

Of course you can, in the same way you can shut down a restaraunt that doesn't adhere to regulations.

How do you even monitor them?

There are plenty of ways of monitoring them from inspections, to checking on the outcomes of cases, dealing with complaints/anonymous tip offs. Just as you can monitor any other service that has to adhere to regulations/laws.

If people want to hold these arbitration sessions they'll hold them in private, in their own homes. It's futile to even try. All you can do is make sure that people who feel they are being mistreated know where to go for help.

This would again be good reason to ensure they're registered, monitored and regulated.

dowie · 20 Dec 2016 at 15:14

mid_gen said:
Not engaging in military escapades across the Middle East and regime change games would seem like a good place to start.

By not engaging in a military escapade Syria when a certain red line was crossed we've allowed the current situation in Aleppo to occur.

Liefrich · 20 Dec 2016 at 15:17

Participant said:
How do we stop the attacks then? Or do we just accept it as the price of a tolerant and liberal society?

Your logic is, as always in these types of threads, pretty flawed.

You've got more chance of being killed in a car crash than a terrorist attack. Shall we ban all motor vehicles?

robfosters · 20 Dec 2016 at 15:18

Tummy said:
What is wrong with the hijab?

Also; that article is absolute tosh.

These 'courts' have no legal standing.

Hijab fine, burka and niqab not so much.

Zethor · 20 Dec 2016 at 15:24

Participant said:
How do we stop the attacks then? Or do we just accept it as the price of a tolerant and liberal society?

Do we accept that 1 in 5 women have been the victims of at least one form of sexual assault? We don't yet it happens because, yes, freedom has its cost and challenges. Islamic terrorism is based on a virulent ideology that thrives on conflict and opression. Banning the religion it is based or targetting its innocent followers will only make it easier for it to spread.

No we can't sit quietly n take it but we can't 'send em back!' or 'build that wall!' either.

Arazi · 20 Dec 2016 at 15:26

Tummy said:
So, er, not real courts. Thanks.

So there are not actual, real, legal (as in related to law), Shariah courts, except there could be 30 or 85 but aren't.

Absolute rubbish.

You see this is the problem, the total naivety of what you just posted is one of the main problems with people like you.

When people use the Sharia Courts, they do not see the the UK courts at all, the judgement on any case from a Sharia Court means most Muslims never go to the UK law courts, are you that blind, there was a select committee meeting about this problem a few weeks ago and it was streamed live on the parliament channel.

The whole point is there should not be any other court of any kind except for the UK Law Courts, the facts are there are courts that are operating in the UK that DO NOT follow UK law, and they are used by Muslims, it really is that simple.

Sliver · 20 Dec 2016 at 15:26

Zethor said:
No we can't sit quietly n take it but we can't 'send em back!' or 'build that wall!' either.

How does building a wall or excluding people from our culture help? Bigot much? :rolleyes:

Most Muslims are good people.

Chris Wilson · 20 Dec 2016 at 15:30

dowie said:
Of course you can, in the same way you can shut down a restaraunt that doesn't adhere to regulations.

There are plenty of ways of monitoring them from inspections, to checking on the outcomes of cases, dealing with complaints/anonymous tip offs. Just as you can monitor any other service that has to adhere to regulations/laws.

This would again be good reason to ensure they're registered, monitored and regulated.

Registered, monitored and regulated ehh? You mean legitimised and accepted into UK law? The thin end of a very big and dangerous wedge. As I said a little earlier, there are those who wish to see this, I have to assume you are one of them then. It would set an abhorrent and potentially divisive precedent with people free to choose whichever court suited their end game best.

Zethor · 20 Dec 2016 at 15:31

Sliver said:
How does building a wall or excluding people from our culture help? Bigot much? Most Muslims are good people.

Can't?

Leprechaun312 · 20 Dec 2016 at 15:32

Chris Wilson said:
It would set an abhorrent and potentially divisive precedent with people free to choose whichever court suited their end game best.

Arazi · 20 Dec 2016 at 15:37

ak22 said:
No their is not... we are in England we following the law of the land

Makes me laugh that people can have such a strong opinion on a subject, yet they have no basic understanding.....

Really? Do you live in a hole and never come out, like Tummy?

Here,

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/76b3f1e0-29be-498f-9325-62d15033c20f

You lot keep saying they don't exist though :rolleyes:

Chris Wilson · 20 Dec 2016 at 15:38

Zethor said:
Do we accept that 1 in 5 women have been the victims of at least one form of sexual assault? We don't yet it happens because, yes, freedom has its cost and challenges. Islamic terrorism is based on a virulent ideology that thrives on conflict and opression. Banning the religion it is based or targetting its innocent followers will only make it easier for it to spread.

No we can't sit quietly n take it but we can't 'send em back!' or 'build that wall!' either.

The Russians send loads illegal aliens back to the `stans, they round `em up regularly and off they go, back over the borders. Here's a video of a gang of them going back home. We can send them back, we just don't have many governments in the EU with the will to do so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUhRZH7PJmc

Arazi · 20 Dec 2016 at 15:38

dowie · 20 Dec 2016 at 15:41

Chris Wilson said:
Registered, monitored and regulated ehh? You mean legitimised and accepted into UK law? The thin end of a very big and dangerous wedge. As I said a little earlier, there are those who wish to see this, I have to assume you are one of them then. It would set an abhorrent and potentially divisive precedent with people free to choose whichever court suited their end game best.

I don't think you understand, these places already exist and can conduct arbitration.

ak22 · 20 Dec 2016 at 15:42

Arazi said:
Really? Do you live in a hole and never come out, like Tummy?

Here,

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/76b3f1e0-29be-498f-9325-62d15033c20f

You lot keep saying they don't exist though

I am saying they don't have any justification over U.K law, its not United kingdom law...

Arazi · 20 Dec 2016 at 16:00

ak22 said:
I am saying they don't have any justification over U.K law, its not United kingdom law...

Correct, Sharia law has no justification over UK law whatsoever but we all know that the community, family, cultural and religious pressure then trumps UK law.