I don't understand racism or homophobia

NikTheSHNIK said:
Africa was ahead of Europe developmentally for a way longer period than Europe has been ahead of Africa...
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ok, so why when europe turned up where they turned into colonies?

people dont get colonised by people who are not as developed as them.


TwsT said:
Didn't the romans rule north Africa so the Mediterranean countries enjoyed the renaissance but the massive desert below that seems to have stopped anything going down to the rest of Africa. Till colonialism. That sounds a bit too simple tbh but invasions and the sharing of knowledge are kind of synonymous.
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so that just extends the question to "why did south africa not develop as fast as europe"
 
TwsT said:
Didn't the romans rule north Africa so the Mediterranean countries enjoyed the renaissance but the massive desert below that seems to have stopped anything going down to the rest of Africa. Till colonialism. That sounds a bit too simple tbh but invasions and the sharing of knowledge are kind of synonymous.
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Can probably throw religion, ignorance and fear into that mix which slowed the sharing of ideas and technology.
 
Gigabit said:
I literally don't understand how or why people are racist or homophobic. It just doesn't make sense to me and it sickens me to think some people are.

Can somebody please enlighten me?
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It is hard wired into all of us to be hostile or suspicious (to one degree or another) of anything or anyone not like us, even if the basis of those feelings are more instinct/ignorance than informed choice. Every individual has their 'degree' of hostility against something or someone, even me and you (and whether we decide to be open about it is another matter for discussion).

Society is working hard to try and create an atmosphere of acceptance and inclusion, but the struggle will always be to try and convince someone who is convinced that they are right that they are actually wrong. When you have two opposing sides who are equally convinced that they are right then conflict / war ensues.

Repeat ad infinitum.

That is the human race in a nutshell (imo).
 
Tefal said:
people dont get colonised by people who are not as developed as them.
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Developed is a fast and loose term. A society can be more developed with infrastructure, archetecture, education and law but if a group of people with bigger guns and an affitnity for war arrive on the doorstep then they will likely take over.

'Developed' in the context you appear to be alluding to simply means "better at war and subjugation" and does not necessarily extend to the broader meaning of developed.
 
BuffetSlayer said:
It is hard wired into all of us to be hostile or suspicious (to one degree or another) of anything or anyone not like us, even if the basis of those feelings are more instinct/ignorance than informed choice. Every individual has their 'degree' of hostility against something or someone, even me and you (and whether we decide to be open about it is another matter for discussion).

Society is working hard to try and create an atmosphere of acceptance and inclusion, but the struggle will always be to try and convince someone who is convinced that they are right that they are actually wrong. When you have two opposing sides who are equally convinced that they are right then conflict / war ensues.

Repeat ad infinitum.

That is the human race in a nutshell (imo).
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You ought to read the whole thread, that discussion has gone on at length.

For what it's worth, I disagree with the notion that its "hard wired", instead I think it is mostly (if not all) learnt. For example, a foster white baby, raised by black parents is certainly not going to be 'naturally' hostile or suspicious of its black parents when it grows older.
 
Tefal said:
ok, so why when europe turned up where they turned into colonies?

people dont get colonised by people who are not as developed as them.





so that just extends the question to "why did south africa not develop as fast as europe"
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Religion/fear/lack of our own understanding of Africa.

I don't know you ask a valid point but like i said invasion is kinda synonymous with the sharing of knowledge and the romans were the last to do north africa pre colonialism so i guess they didn't see a value in going through the miles of sand dunes to see whats on the other side.

We seemed to all just focus on left to right not up and down. "stick with what you know perhaps."
 
RoboCod said:
You ought to read the whole thread, that discussion has gone on at length.

For what it's worth, I disagree with the notion that its "hard wired", instead I think it is mostly (if not all) learnt. For example, a foster white baby, raised by black parents is certainly not going to be 'naturally' hostile or suspicious of its black parents when it grows older.
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I agree I have been a little lazy and haven't read the whole thread.

However, we do have hard wired instincts to be fearful or hostile towards things that are different. That is not exclusive to people, but animals, situations and suchlike and our default response is usually to shun, or fight/kill or evade such things / situations rather than trying to learn more about it. It is a built in defense mechanism.

We tend to fear change, we fear difference and so on. I agree that most modern racism and xenophobia is learnt behaviour, but I think the learning is predicated on a basic instinct to begin with.

However, I think it can for the most part be unlearned and tempered with education and wisdom. However, to completely remove the basic instinct would mean removing part of our nature as a species. In terms of evolution, I think eventually that instict may well evolve out of us (if we survive long enough as a species).
 
Barham2016 said:
But there has been slave trades all over the world? The Irish sent to america? the Europeans to the Romans, South americans? how comes every other group can move on and they cant?
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Because you are comparing Apples and Oranges. None of those examples were conducted on a racial basis. Because the Christian churches had to justify slavery (a position so at odds with their ideal of equality) they preached that the peoples were inferior and destined to be slaves, making great efforts to justify it. This then made it impossible in the future for them or their descendants to ever be regarded as equals.
 
Amp34 said:
And what happens if the same thing happens in the next interview, and the next, and the next. And then the only job you can get is being hired by someone of the same ethnicity to clean toilets, even though you have a degree in astrophysics?

Would you just get over it then?

Especially if you were consistently being stopped on the streets by police because of the colour of your skin as you were going to and from those interviews.

While being black in the UK isn't half as bad as it used to be it seems asian/middle eastern women are now in the same position black workers were 50 years ago. There is still discrimination based on ethnicity and it's holding a large section of society back.
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What doesn't help is some of the things that are happening in the world today, mostly surrounding religion. If one race of people avows to wipe the other off the face of the earth then this is bound to be reflected in mistrust and racism.
 
NikTheSHNIK said:
Because you are comparing Apples and Oranges. None of those examples were conducted on a racial basis. Because the Christian churches had to justify slavery (a position so at odds with their ideal of equality) they preached that the peoples were inferior and destined to be slaves, making great efforts to justify it. This then made it impossible in the future for them or their descendants to ever be regarded as equals.
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Well, they are either going to have to move on or be forever 'victims'. You have to always look forward, looking back is a dead end.
 
NikTheSHNIK said:
Because you are comparing Apples and Oranges. None of those examples were conducted on a racial basis. Because the Christian churches had to justify slavery (a position so at odds with their ideal of equality) they preached that the peoples were inferior and destined to be slaves, making great efforts to justify it. This then made it impossible in the future for them or their descendants to ever be regarded as equals.
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But the Romans idea of slavery was based on race?
 
Tefal said:
so that just extends the question to "why did south africa not develop as fast as europe"
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Because they didn't have to.

Humans evolved in central Africa, it is the environment that we evolved to live in "Au Naturalle" as it were.

As a consequence, there was little pressure to develop (What we would regard as) Cultural, Social and Technological advancements beyond basic tool making and extended family groups (Which Chimps do today)

Humans who migrated into northern latitudes had seasons and harsher environments to contend with and so were under pressure to develop Cultural, Social and technical advancements in order to survive.

Clothing, Agriculture, complex societies, division of Labour, long term planning, astronomy (An ancient technology) and so on.
 
NikTheSHNIK said:
Because you are comparing Apples and Oranges. None of those examples were conducted on a racial basis. Because the Christian churches had to justify slavery (a position so at odds with their ideal of equality) they preached that the peoples were inferior and destined to be slaves, making great efforts to justify it. This then made it impossible in the future for them or their descendants to ever be regarded as equals.
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Unlike Muslim Arabs.
 
Barham2016 said:
But there are black people that see white people as inferior?
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Is this a statement or a question?

If it's a statement, yes of course, there is a proportion of ignorance amongst any population.

If it's a question, I guess there are black people who think whites are inferior and it would be an interesting area of study to look at why. I imagine it's down to ignorance and fear.
 
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