Cartax - about time.

helpimcrap

helpimcrap

helpimcrap

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Joined
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Leicestershire
New cars only....

So let's say my last petrol car was 540 a year in tax.
Now let's go but a 40k+ brand new super efficient low emission car... your paying a chunk every year, just because as well as the 140 actual tax

So 450 a year for the first 5 years

Fantastic way to push people to lesser emission vehicles.


Oh and it's cars registered after 2017 only so old cars remain the same.

I fail to see how this helps other than hammer those buying new cars
 
~Divine~Wind~ said:
I fail to see how this helps other than hammer those buying new cars
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That will always be the case. It's just going to be a waiting game until say 2025 when cars made after 2017 are mostly on the road.

The current scheme was never going to stay long, as more people swapped to diesel and were paying £0/£20/£30 a year, the coffers would certainly be drying up.
 
helpimcrap said:
It's nice to see them heavily taxing the worst offenders. Will hopefully make people think more.
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They're not heavily taxing the worst offenders at all. If they scrapped VED and increased fuel prices, or introduced tolls on all of our motorways, that would be taxing the worst offenders as those who drive more, and therefore pollute more, pay more.

The new system is just the same as the old one in the sense that someone like my dad who does about 3000 miles per year in a V8 pays 5-6 times more than someone who does 30,000 miles per year in a diesel supermini, thereby polluting far more. Ridiculous situation IMO.
 
geekman said:
The new system is just the same as the old one in the sense that someone like my dad who does about 3000 miles per year in a V8 pays 5-6 times more than someone who does 30,000 miles per year in a diesel supermini, thereby polluting far more. Ridiculous situation IMO.
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Yeah, it just seems like they're shuffling everything around but not 'fixing' anything.
 
geekman said:
They're not heavily taxing the worst offenders at all. If they scrapped VED and increased fuel prices, or introduced tolls on all of our motorways, that would be taxing the worst offenders as those who drive more, and therefore pollute more, pay more.
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Yes to scrapping VED and raising fuel tax (8ppL probabally about right)

No to tolls on motorways (doing so would cause massive congestion on non-motorway routes)

geekman said:
The new system is just the same as the old one in the sense that someone like my dad who does about 3000 miles per year in a V8 pays 5-6 times more than someone who does 30,000 miles per year in a diesel supermini, thereby polluting far more. Ridiculous situation IMO
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I have always felt that we should not financially discourage people from owning multiple vehicles.

(If I am going to have only one car, I will have to have the largest one I am likely to need, If I can have multiple vehicles, I can use whatever is most appropriate which, most of the time, will be a lot smaller)

I would go further than simply scrapping VED, I would change the way Insurance works too. (Fuel levy for personal injuries + removal of legal compulsion)

(More later perhaps)
 
Just put it on the petrol please. The current system is silly and everyone knows it. Of the 3 cars in our household the cheapest one to tax is also the most polluting as it does 3 times the mileage as the others.
 
adam cool dude said:
Just put it on the petrol please. The current system is silly and everyone knows it. Of the 3 cars in our household the cheapest one to tax is also the most polluting as it does 3 times the mileage as the others.
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This is something I've always advocated - hits the worst offenders who have the worst MPG and use the car more causing the problems in the atmosphere.

Trouble is it will never guarantee an income and it could end up costing the government billions in lost revenue as fuel theft would be a real issue.

geekman said:
They're not heavily taxing the worst offenders at all. If they scrapped VED and increased fuel prices, or introduced tolls on all of our motorways, that would be taxing the worst offenders as those who drive more, and therefore pollute more, pay more.

The new system is just the same as the old one in the sense that someone like my dad who does about 3000 miles per year in a V8 pays 5-6 times more than someone who does 30,000 miles per year in a diesel supermini, thereby polluting far more. Ridiculous situation IMO.
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I do agree a little bit - I have a car I do around 3000 miles a year in and averages 20mpg. My other car does 40mpg and I use it far more.

It is hard to work out a way that will charge to people who use cars more rather than for leisure.

I just think that paying zero VED on a car was the worst decision the government could make as it was just a completely obvious deal to win the election and curry favour with the middle class and their expensive cars.
 
helpimcrap said:
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-news/88361/tax-disc-changes-everything-you-need-to-know-about-uk-road-tax

About time - every car that uses fuel is bad and damages the planet (as well as every car with 4 wheels damages the infrastructure of the country but that's another argument). If you can afford a new car what's a few hundred quid extra. It's nice to see them heavily taxing the worst offenders. Will hopefully make people think more.
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It isn't just for 'new cars' though is it? It applies to cars until they hit 5 years old.

So if you are buying 3 year old cars that were £45k new for £20k you are hit with mega tax, whereas if you are buying brand new cars for £39k you are not.

It's daft.

It'll be some time but it negatively affects both of our cars - she buys Minis, I buy 5 Series - so her tax one day will go from £30 to £140 a year and mine from £140 a year to £500 a year.

Great.

And neither of us buy brand new cars.

It'll also continue to ensure the roads are full of poverty spec German cars with no options - no room for options on a 520d because you'll whack the tax right up :rolleyes:

I'm really not sure who benefits from discouraging people specing extra kit on new cars.

Bob buys a brand spanking new 328i with no kit. Bob pays £140 a year. Fred buys a 3 year old 328i with lots of options. Fred pays £450 a year. Where is the logic in that?
 
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This system has been built to maximise income from car taxing and nothing else. It's nothing to do with environment etc

The previous one was getting old and not generating enough because everyone moved to £30 year taxed cars.
 
The current C02 F category cost jump from 150 to the new 151 category is significant; £185 to £500, plus the £310 per year.
Per month, from £15.41 to £67.50

Take all of my money !!! :mad:
 
It's a load of crap for exactly the reasons Fox mentioned. Plus I don't see why somebody should be punished for wanting a nice car?
 
Wow that's overly complicated and pretty disruptive.

I'm not sure I'm liking the "lol new car over 40k give me money for 5 years just because" tax. We're still going to be feeling that in the second hand market when buying at 20k.

If the price cars are taxed on includes the price of options that's going to make a total mess of the market.
 
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Also, no doubt the £40k category will not increase with inflation so more and more cars will be included as the years role on.
 
Tute said:
It's a load of crap for exactly the reasons Fox mentioned. Plus I don't see why somebody should be punished for wanting a nice car?
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I don't agree on the extra tax for £40k+ but I do agree on charging every vehicle. To charge nothing was insane and really wound me up because every car contributes to it all.
 
I might be blind but didn't see where it mentioned options or what constitutes the price band. Presumably it's more likely to be based on models/engines list price rather than every single option / purchase price e.g did you spec metallic paint and upgraded wheels.

E.g. so a titanium x Mondeo should cost more than a zetec Mondeo at the same engine size, or similarly a 325i BMW should cost less than a 330i BMW at the same trim level.
 
helpimcrap said:
I don't agree on the extra tax for £40k+ but I do agree on charging every vehicle. To charge nothing was insane and really wound me up because every car contributes to it all.
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The current VED system was setup with the aim to reduce CO2 emitted from vehicles on our roads, by giving people lower cost incentive to 'Go Green'.
The new system is just a money grabbing exercise, people buying new cars with higher CO2 outputs actually will pay less than they do currently.

Policy U-Turn much ?!?!
 
SDK^ said:
The current C02 F category cost jump from 150 to the new 151 category is significant; £185 to £500, plus the £310 per year.
Per month, from £15.41 to £67.50

Take all of my money !!! :mad:
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That's only the first year rate though fortunately which is included in the list price of the car isn't it (Which will thus increase I'd imagine).

Armageus said:
I might be blind but didn't see where it mentioned options or what constitutes the price band. Presumably it's more likely to be based on models/engines list price rather than every single option / purchase price e.g did you spec metallic paint and upgraded wheels.

E.g. so a titanium x Mondeo should cost more than a zetec Mondeo at the same engine size, or similarly a 325i BMW should cost less than a 330i BMW at the same trim level.
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The tax is based on the purchase price of the vehicle. It's presumably trivially easy for the supplying dealer to be required to input this information when registering the car.
 
Armageus said:
I might be blind but didn't see where it mentioned options or what constitutes the price band. Presumably it's more likely to be based on models/engines list price rather than every single option / purchase price e.g did you spec metallic paint and upgraded wheels.

E.g. so a titanium x Mondeo should cost more than a zetec Mondeo at the same engine size, or similarly a 325i BMW should cost less than a 330i BMW at the same trim level.
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As far as I'm aware it's based on RRP before discounts including any options spec'd. So if you spec a 41k car but get 10k in discounts, you'll still be stung with the tax hike.

I'm looking at ordering something at the moment, and post April I'll get a ~£500 "showroom tax", then £140 a year. Whereas at the moment it's £270 a year. What's the point?


[TW]Fox;30409495 said:
That's only the first year rate though fortunately which is included in the list price of the car isn't it (Which will thus increase I'd imagine).
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Yeah the OTR price increases in line with the increased first year tax rate.
 
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