Knife Crime on our streets

Tefal said:
actually murder rates have spiked dramatically since about the 70s
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Even More so than you might think.

Remember, Trauma care is much better today.

IE people are surviving murderous assaults that they would not have survived 40 years ago.

If you are going to make a true comparison between 1970's Murder rates and today's, a correction to take account of this really needs to be applied.

It also occurs to me that the legal test for Murder should also be modified to take account of this too. many of todays "Murderers" are effectively getting away with lesser charges simply because their victims have good doctors. Neither justice nor the interests of public safety are served by this.
 
Tefal said:
actually murder rates have spiked dramatically since about the 70s
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Is that as a number of %age of population?

The UK population has increased by about 10 million since the 70's, so i'd guess with more people, that there would be more murders.
 
Semple said:
Is that as a number of %age of population?

The UK population has increased by about 10 million since the 70's, so i'd guess with more people, that there would be more murders.
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per capita.

seems to psike around the early 2000s then drop again but was up 11% last year
 
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ignore hand gun ban bit just seems that most people who can be arsed to make graphs are gun lobbyists.
 
Orionaut said:
It also occurs to me that the legal test for Murder should also be modified to take account of this too. many of todays "Murderers" are effectively getting away with lesser charges simply because their victims have good doctors. Neither justice nor the interests of public safety are served by this.
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I remember reading an article a while back from some top-notch lawyer, and the point they were getting across is that it's actually very hard to convict someone for murder these days. Most of the time they settle for a manslaughter charge. Which i guess is kinda true if two blokes in a pub get into a fight, and one accidentally kills the other.
 
Semple said:
I remember reading an article a while back from some top-notch lawyer, and the point they were getting across is that it's actually very hard to convict someone for murder these days. Most of the time they settle for a manslaughter charge. Which i guess is kinda true if two blokes in a pub get into a fight, and one accidentally kills the other.
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I also remember reading an article that seemed to imply that our "Murder" rate is actually closer to that of the USA than people might think because we define "Murders" on conviction whereas the US tends to lump all non negligent homicides together as a single figure.

(IE our figures are effectively fudged to make things look better than they really are)
 
Nasher said:
The problem is a a lot of people ARE carrying knives again, not just criminals, but people who don't feel they have enough protection from criminals as well. E.g. I know a guy who keeps a big knife in the side of his car door just in case.

Criminals are stabbing people, but victims are also stabbing criminals and leaving them for dead. Because they don't believe in the police/law any more.
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Its a tricky scenario, on the one hand you do have a right to defend yourself, and the police wont be much help unless they happen to be in the same place at the same time as the guy trying to kill you.

On the other hand, whilst you can use pretty much anything you happen to have at the time, including firearms, as a reasonably defence of yours or a third parties life, carrying something exclusively for the purposes of self defence makes it a manslauhter charge.

So carrying a knife in the door pocket of your car "just in case" isnt a good idea legally, although i suppose prison is better than dead logic applies here.
 
Tefal said:
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ignore hand gun ban bit just seems that most people who can be arsed to make graphs are gun lobbyists.
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Worth noting that Harold Shipman's ~170 murders all got allocated to 2003, regardless of the spread of when they occurred. Does seem to be a genuine spike of sorts in the early to mid 2000s, though.
 
cheesyboy said:
Worth noting that Harold Shipman's ~170 murders all got allocated to 2003, regardless of the spread of when they occurred. Does seem to be a genuine spike of sorts in the early to mid 2000s, though.
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police groups have said the spike in the last 2 years may also be parley due to detectives being removed from gang crimes and assigned to historical sex abuse cases of celebrities.
 
opethdisciple said:
So was just reading this..... These knife crimes, do we think they are just unprovoked attacks or these 'victims' are actually somehow involved in criminality themselves or inciting it in some way?

Doesn't make you feel safe at all!
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Based on 20 years living in London and reading/hearing daily news reports of stabbings, I'm guessing the lion's share are gang/drug related where the stabber and stabbee are known to each other.
 
4 knife related deaths in London in the space of 14 hours on New Year’s Eve.

What ever the police are doing it isn’t working, something needs to change.
 
new years eve is always bad for this kinda stuff.my way always things like this. glad its not early 2000s kinda bad though.heroin was one of the major causes back then now its coke.so many youngsters coked up on rampages now.
 
Craterloads said:
What ever the police are doing it isn’t working, something needs to change.
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It's certainly working.

Drugs are illegal, people getting stabbed just for selling drugs. Means people want stronger police force to feel safer (false sense of security), only thing getting safer is government.
 
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