Gender Pay Gap
- Thread starter Nix
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No I think thy do something daft like compare the average women's wage over her total lifetime with the average man's wage over his total lifetime.
Yep... Bonkers.
Nope. They look at on average how much women earn in certain age brackets vs men in each job sector.
Example is that they may state women in the health care sector earn on average 40% less than men. What they don't state is that the majority of women in the health care sector are probably nurses or work in administration, and the majority of doctors and GPs will be men, thus they will earn more, but the statistics will say that women earn x% less.
It's absolutely moronic. There is no gender pay gap, women and men who perform the same roles will earn typically the same amount, it's just that men take more roles in engineering, development, manual labour etc, where as women take more jobs in things like child care, administration, HR etc which typically pay less.
If there were a gender pay gap, who would hire a male equivalent when they could hire a woman to perform the same role for less money? No one.
But hey, gotta signal those virtues.
but it all goes in the same pot 
Of course not, because that would result in no gap and that's not a figure that's useful for the story they want to tell. There have been like for like comparisons and they do return the same pay.
What they usually do is compare everyone working at least a set number of hours per week, with complete disregard for what jobs people are doing, what qualifications they have, how much experience they have and even how many hours they actually work.
And no, I'm not joking about that last part. They really don't factor in number of hours worked. They just take a cut-off point, which can vary from as low as 16 hours per week to as high as 35 hours per week. So, for example, the "create a gender gap for political purposes" figures never make any distinction between someone working 40 hours per week and someone working 35 hours per week. At the same rate of pay, the person working 35 hours per week gets 87.5% of the pay of the person working 40 hours per week. Voila! A gap!
Most of the "gender gap" is directly accounted for by the different average number of hours worked by men and by women (as in the 40/35 example above). The rest is plausibly accounted for by the indirect effects of number of hours worked, since higher paid jobs tend to require longer hours and people who work longer hours are more likely to get promoted.
A big factor in the amount of hours worked is parenthood. The average hours worked by mothers is much less than the average hours worked by fathers, which strongly skews the overall averages of men and women. This is probably the main reason why the "gender gap" varies a great deal by age. The older the age, the larger the proportion of women who have children.
None of this is hidden or disputed, but dominant prejudices and propaganda are more influential than the truth so everyone is endlessly fed the lie that women are paid less than men on a like for like basis, i.e. that the gender gap is a sex gap.
There is some scope for truthful examination of possible trends of sexism affecting the gender gap, but that would be far less useful for feminists than lying about it and could become counter-productive for their goal of promoting sexism since addressing the truth about the issue might result in more sexual equality since that's the only fair way to close the gap. Since the goal of feminism in this area is to have women paid more than men for the same work (so the average pay is the same when the average hours worked are not), why would feminists do a U-turn when they're winning?
For people under 30 in the UK, the "gender gap" is the other way around - the average pay for men is lower than that for women in jobs classed as "full time". This, unsurprisingly, is generally ignored. This gap is, again unsurprisingly, increasing rather than decreasing. When preferential treatment and status is routinely given to one sex, it's bound to have an ever-increasing effect on average pay by sex. I might still be alive when the average pay for women is higher than that for men at all ages. It might be mildly entertaining to see how that's spun to portray it as discrimination against women.
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Bloody hell. You're not serious... So they take the average of the entire sector and don't even bother to break it down by jobs/positions. How can this be taken seriously?
Journalists are lazy. And the people that produce these stats are biased.
Take the smartphone market, most news reports will use unit sales as a representation of the market share.
So Samsung have 20.8% of sales, Apple have 14.5% of the market in 2016 based on unit sales figure.
IMO this is very misleading because of the vastly different price points of each unit.
But Apple have 33% of the market share in 2016 if you base you figures on revenue, which IMO is far more important, and a bigger indication of how well a company is doing in the market place.
Statistics can be misused very easily and it's very common in general news stories.
But then more people are using Android and are getting used to that ecosystem?
It'd be better to compare that way for absolute sales.
The ecosystem only counts when comparing Apple and Google.
But even there app revenue would also be relevant. Both are big enough to not have to worry about support. Unit numbers are useful for free App creators that use Ads to make money. (Though apple users may be considered as higher spenders on average compared to Android users, so have a higher weighted value for advertisers)
Samsung, Huawei & other phone makers (excluding google) make very little from the android ecosystem directly. So unit number don't particularly help them.
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I wish people would stop saying that everyone who believes in a gender pay gap is a liberal. I'm a liberal and I DON'T agree that there is a pay gap if you compare a man and a woman who have worked for exactly the same length of time, have the same qualifications and have the same experience.
The reason that women generally get paid less is simply because they tend to choose jobs that pay poorly. Or they take extended leave for child birth. These studies "proving" that women earn less than men tend to not to compare people on a like for like basis.
But please learn what the word liberal means. It does not mean SJW. This what I mean by liberal:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism_in_Europe
Edit: Note this bit in particular "however, supporters of other versions of liberalism are found in political parties across the left and right spectrum" left AND right wing. Nothing about SJWs in that article.
The reason that women generally get paid less is simply because they tend to choose jobs that pay poorly. Or they take extended leave for child birth. These studies "proving" that women earn less than men tend to not to compare people on a like for like basis.
But please learn what the word liberal means. It does not mean SJW. This what I mean by liberal:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism_in_Europe
Edit: Note this bit in particular "however, supporters of other versions of liberalism are found in political parties across the left and right spectrum" left AND right wing. Nothing about SJWs in that article.
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Unfortunately, illiberal authoritarian bigots have so thoroughly usurped and corrupted the word that a genuine liberal using the word is like someone using a swastika as a symbol of peace and prosperity and good fortune and suchlike. Strictly speaking that is what it was for, but it's been too well corrupted.
I think that when an actual liberal calls themselves a liberal they're doing more harm than good to the actual ideals of liberalism because they're helping the illiberal bigots who have usurped liberalism by giving the false impression that they have much wider support than they actually have.
I also agree with what liberalism originally meant and had I been alive far enough in the past I would have called myself a liberal, but I wouldn't do so now any more than I'd use a swastika as a symbol of peace and prosperity.
The gender pay gap issue has always bugged me.
I work in a 2nd Line Team and I am the highest paid member of that team. I am paid more than my 7 counter-parts and we do the same job (on paper) and I'm paid more than my manager.
1 member of my team is a woman, the rest are men.
So there is a pay gap here but not because of gender, but because I am the highest trained member of staff in the team (and I have great negotiation skills
)
I work in a 2nd Line Team and I am the highest paid member of that team. I am paid more than my 7 counter-parts and we do the same job (on paper) and I'm paid more than my manager.
1 member of my team is a woman, the rest are men.
So there is a pay gap here but not because of gender, but because I am the highest trained member of staff in the team (and I have great negotiation skills
)I'm just curious what I should call myself instead of a liberal? I'm not a fascist, I'm not a communist, I'm not really a socialist, I'm not a conservative, I'm not anything really apart from a liberal. I guess I could make up a word?
Thank you for your post by the way
. At least someone knows what they are talking about. I blame the Americans for the negative view on the word liberal and liberalism. I also blame them for the negative view libertarianism that has sprung up as well but that is another topic.Old liberal.
We're trying to populise the term Classical Liberal
I read somewhere but I can't seem to find it now that women who never get married and never have children earn as much as men in every age group. The differencses start to show up when women marry and have children. Obviously if you are not putting in the hours or have the one track drive to excel (very hard with Children as priorities change) you wont earn as much as those that do.