Consumer Advice

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Debit or credit card?

If credit card your card company own the vehicle and should be taking action to recover it from you. They will have refunded you then they deal with recovery of costs from the dealer.

If debit card then not 100% sure but I believe you do. However the dealer is entitled to take legal action to reclaim it as effectively it's the same as a cash transaction refund.

You owe them nothing more though on top of the vehicle.
 
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Send car keys to dealer by Special Delivery, with a letter stating where they need to collect car from and a reasonable date after which you will arrange for car to be towed away for scrap, should they not collect it?
 
Thought I'd bump this as an update as this is issue is likely to go the distance and I thought it might be useful to document my experience for anybody who has to go through this crap in the future.

So since my last update I've been corresponding with the car dealership's legal firm basically to try and agree a sum for fair usage and the method by which the car should be returned to the dealer. I managed to get them to agree in writing to £350 fair usage (they originally wanted £800), but they are insisting that I return the car to them at my cost, I assert that my previous return attempt discharges my responsibility and that they need to collect the vehicle.

Fast forward to two days ago, I receive a court summons relating to the car and demanding either £500 and the car to be returned in good condition or the full value of the car plus an extra £500 for usage (hmmm). They've left a shed load of the original complaint out of their submission and asserted that I was just complaining that the tires and brakes were a bit worn. Anyway I've got two weeks to respond and then I await my court date. I'll update as the process goes along just for anybody who might end up being taken to small claims in the future and wants an idea of the process.
 
How much will it cost to transport it back to the dealer?

Surely this is costing them more money in legal fees than the £350 they originally wanted.

I would personally dump it in the entrance of their forecourt at night leaving a cheque for £350 on the seat and the keys through their post box. Just to end the dispute.
 
Beerbaron said:
How much will it cost to transport it back to the dealer?

Surely this is costing them more money in legal fees than the £350 they originally wanted.

I would personally dump it in the entrance of their forecourt at night leaving a cheque for £350 on the seat and the keys through their post box. Just to end the dispute.
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I think the cost for me is between £150 - £250 to transport (one of the highlighted issues caused the brakes to fail so it would be a flatbed jobby), it's really more about the principal. I did try to return and was told that if I did so they would push it onto the road and then report it as dumped to the police. At the moment I'm still the registered owner so I'd be liable for impound fees etc, if I just rocked up with no warning I suspect that would be the outcome.
 
Surely it is no longer your problem?

You have had your (full?) refund from your card provider because they did not act upon that request.

Why would you pay them anything going forward? Tell them the car is in such a place come and collect it at your will. Send your form to the DVLA to say you no longer own the car.
 
Given how many cowboys there are out there, you could probably get quite decent legal advice on the specifics and see whether it is worth fighting these cowboys.

Obviously a lot of this rides on proof around trying to return it.
 
Vanquish-Storm said:
Surely it is no longer your problem?

You have had your (full?) refund from your card provider because they did not act upon that request.

Why would you pay them anything going forward? Tell them the car is in such a place come and collect it at your will. Send your form to the DVLA to say you no longer own the car.
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It's my problem in that they've taken the case to the small claims court claiming that I raised the card clawback spuriously and demanding I return "their" money.

Avenged7Fold said:
Given how many cowboys there are out there, you could probably get quite decent legal advice on the specifics and see whether it is worth fighting these cowboys.

Obviously a lot of this rides on proof around trying to return it.
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I've had some legal advice form both the CAB and a paid solicitor, both of whom agree with me around what's reasonable in this case. I have a witness and photos from my return attempt and one of the response letters from their law firm alludes to the fact that this attempt did actually take place so I feel reasonably confident.

I'm not really after advice as the course is pretty clear at this point, I will pretty much need to defend my case in small claims court, just thought I'd document the progress as I'd previously asked for advice from the forum.
 
FortuitousFluke said:
It's my problem in that they've taken the case to the small claims court claiming that I raised the card clawback spuriously and demanding I return "their" money.



I've had some legal advice form both the CAB and a paid solicitor, both of whom agree with me around what's reasonable in this case. I have a witness and photos from my return attempt and one of the response letters from their law firm alludes to the fact that this attempt did actually take place so I feel reasonably confident.

I'm not really after advice as the course is pretty clear at this point, I will pretty much need to defend my case in small claims court, just thought I'd document the progress as I'd previously asked for advice from the forum.
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Legal advise is a must but surely they need to claim the money from the card company. The contract of payment is between them and your card provider.

Any solicitor would love to take your case because it seems like an easy pay day for them.

How much are we talking in monetary value here if you don't mine me asking? At the moment you are back to where you started before your purchased the car and so would they if they take the car back. So they would rather end up losing a court case and pay costs than be even?
 
I wish you luck. Having dealt with a few of these guys before and walked away angrily (thankfully without a car) and heard many who have driven away for the worse, i hope you stick it to them!

The industry is becoming more regulated in recent years but these guys just find more ways to cheat the system and work around things. The warranty given to you by them would be from a third party who the dealership pays a small fee for example and these guys make a living from giving you the run around, which is much easier to do as a third party in all these. Yes the dodgy dealership business it is partially created by a need for cheap cars but at the same time, their margins they make on these write offs are considerable and show no regard for your safety or business ethics.

When i purchased my first car I took my mate who is a mechanic when visiting the dealerships. He would knock the price down and turn down cars which were bills waiting to happen. At the end of each car browsing session, the dealership manage to set off alarm bells by doing things like offering to knock another £50 on the condition that i waive the warranty (something they HAVE to give you). After visiting several in a weekend, i was so sick of those places that i stuck to private sellers only.
 
Beerbaron said:
When is the court date?
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No court date yet. Basically you get sent a number of forms which you need to fill in, in my case I'm admitting to £350 of the requested sum as that was the agreed fair usage, I also have to submit a defence form stating my case and providing evidence. Once that's done they set a date.

Vanquish-Storm said:
How much are we talking in monetary value here if you don't mine me asking? At the moment you are back to where you started before your purchased the car and so would they if they take the car back. So they would rather end up losing a court case and pay costs than be even?
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£1700, doesn't sound like much but to me and my partner it definitely is. For that price I expect some wear and tear but I definitely don't expect the brakes to fall off.

Liquidfox said:
Can't you also request that the case be heard in your local court too? Just to make things even more awkward for them.
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Interesting question, the court they have requested is 2 hours from me, online guidance suggests I can ask that the case be heard at a court nearer to me but I can't see any option for this on the forms. I might see if there is an advice line I can call before I submit everything.
 
  • Get it moved to your local magistrates, it's very unusual for the court to make the consumer travel.
  • Warranty is irrelevant, the question is if they sold the product as described and fit for purpose - they are a business so should be capable of identifying faults such as faulty brakes. Up until 6 months they would need to prove the fault was not present when they sold it (this is unlikely to be provable or even possible).
  • IMO fair use is rubbish in this time frame, you owe nothing.
  • Get a written report form the garage you took it to originally who identified the faults.

Make sure you attend the court, don't get scared and give in before hand, there is a very high chance they will not even come and you will be win by default. Have you considered a counter claim? I'm sure you have identifiable costs you've sunk into this mess, including your time and inconvenience.
 
Completely agree with Dave M's post, they're messing you around trying to get you to back down and cough up the cash. All these threats of paying cost of car + £500 usage is utter bull. How on earth can you have caused the car to depreciate in value by 30% when you've barely driven it and it was only worth £1,700 in the first place!

If you've put any money in this fiasco at all, claim it back. The sellers sound like utter idiots.
 
Dave M said:
  • Get it moved to your local magistrates, it's very unusual for the court to make the consumer travel.
  • Warranty is irrelevant, the question is if they sold the product as described and fit for purpose - they are a business so should be capable of identifying faults such as faulty brakes. Up until 6 months they would need to prove the fault was not present when they sold it (this is unlikely to be provable or even possible).
  • IMO fair use is rubbish in this time frame, you owe nothing.
  • Get a written report form the garage you took it to originally who identified the faults.
Make sure you attend the court, don't get scared and give in before hand, there is a very high chance they will not even come and you will be win by default. Have you considered a counter claim? I'm sure you have identifiable costs you've sunk into this mess, including your time and inconvenience.
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Good response, I'll look into getting it moved to nearer my location. I always considered warranty to be irrelevant, it was a joke when offered as it covered the first 28 days which are covered under right of refusal, my argument has always been in relation to the Consumer Rights Act as you've alluded to. I've got a report from the garage as it formed part of my claim to the credit card company.

They've been using bully boy tactics from the beginning. They claim they responded to the card issuer but the response was conveniently lost. They won't be able to prove this as they never seem to send letters via recorded delivery. My thinking is they knew they would lose if they argued their case and so allowed the refund to occur in the hope that talk about court and debt recovery would scare me in to paying. Not happening.
 
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