How many halal chicken shops does a high street need?

Vonhelmet · 31 Mar 2017 at 12:23

LeeUK said:
So they can't eat the meat unless it's halal but they are cooking it and selling it, not eating it themselves. Why does it need to be halal?

Think about their target market...

Amp34 · 1 Apr 2017 at 19:10

Glaucus said:
lol.
point out where i said it was suffering free?
oh wait you cant/
your entire argument is flawed from every aspect. not only what you think i have said, but ignoring commissioned reports on the subject, which dont agree with your conclusions you plucked out of thin air.

and even more lol, i already said about suffering from any food sorce, so why you bring that up.

now why not try reading and go look at the reports.

Problem is while we persist in using large slaughterhouses sometimes hundreds of miles away from where the animal was raised I have little problem with the very small proportion of hail meat that isn't stunned. The animal is going to go through a much greater amount of stress prior to the death than the 5-30 seconds it takes for them to actually die.

We need to be moving away from large scale slaughtering and back to smaller scale local slaughter. Much less stress on the animals IMO.

And unfortunately the reality is, as evidenced by the fact it's always halal that's brought up, part of the issue for many is the islamic aspect of it, nothing to do with animal welfare (not that i'm suggesting you are Glaucus, you actually seem to care). Most people really don't give a **** unfortunately, otherwise our slaughter welfare standards would be much higher.

Amp34 · 1 Apr 2017 at 19:14

B&W said:
They die either way, it is not that important on the grand scale of things. Human life is more important and we would focus on eliminating poverty and child cruelty first.

Humans first, animals second. Banning certain methods of slaughter will affect humans so no it's not that important.

That's an oxymoron in itself. Humans are animals...

Glaucus said:
it is for many people and why many of us would like to see far high animal welfare rights.
However halal is currently a very easy target, it does not require any farms to change their way, it is easy to implement and should be done, it all it requires is the removing of the exemption.

you opinion this is happening in a total vacuum with nothing else is absolutely false and you know that but it doesn't fit your angle.

By that you mean it's cheap even though it won't affect the vast majority of livestock slaughtered in this country. I'd argue we should be targeting the things that will actually make a difference to the majority of animals, rather than a very small percentage. Hence reforming slaughterhouses in general - but that would mean meat costs more, and consumers won't like that.

As long as it's cheap and safe most people really don't care.

Arazi · 1 Apr 2017 at 19:26

Dis86 said:
Oh I can think of a few members to introduce you to

Jeez they talk some *****, mostly

e: We will be accused of having a bromance any minute now

Dis86 · 1 Apr 2017 at 19:27

Arazi said:
Jeez they talk some *****, mostly

e: We will be accused of having a bromance any minute now

<3

B&W · 1 Apr 2017 at 21:29

Amp34 said:
That's an oxymoron in itself. Humans are animals...

By that you mean it's cheap even though it won't affect the vast majority of livestock slaughtered in this country. I'd argue we should be targeting the things that will actually make a difference to the majority of animals, rather than a very small percentage. Hence reforming slaughterhouses in general - but that would mean meat costs more, and consumers won't like that.

As long as it's cheap and safe most people really don't care.

Show me any animal who has accomplished as much as our species has.

413x · 1 Apr 2017 at 21:45

Would love to see halal and the like banned

Vonhelmet · 1 Apr 2017 at 22:08

B&W said:
Show me any animal who has accomplished as much as our species has.

That's a bit of a non sequitur.

robfosters · 1 Apr 2017 at 22:11

B&W said:
Show me any animal who has accomplished as much as our species has.

Show me an animal that's destroyed as much as our species has.

Stretch · 1 Apr 2017 at 22:29

It shouldn't be halaled.

mrk · 1 Apr 2017 at 22:59

psd99 said:
fast food places get the green light to open a new business when there are like 20 similar business within a 1 mile radius

Well it wouldn't be fast if you had to walk a mile to get your food now would it!

B&W · 1 Apr 2017 at 23:27

robfosters said:
Show me an animal that's destroyed as much as our species has.

Next time your ill goto a animal.

Amp34 · 1 Apr 2017 at 23:30

Glaucus said:
it is for many people and why many of us would like to see far high animal welfare rights.
However halal is currently a very easy target, it does not require any farms to change their way, it is easy to implement and should be done, it all it requires is the removing of the exemption.

you opinion this is happening in a total vacuum with nothing else is absolutely false and you know that but it doesn't fit your angle.

B&W said:
Show me any animal who has accomplished as much as our species has.

What's that got to do with anything?

We are successful animals, doesn't mean we aren't animals.

B&W · 1 Apr 2017 at 23:34

Amp34 said:
What's that got to do with anything?

We are successful animals, doesn't mean we aren't animals.

Were a bit more as is evident by basic reality. Anyway look after our species first.

LiE · 1 Apr 2017 at 23:37

james.miller said:
Indeed,

We have a dominoes being opening on our highstreet soon. It's a small town highstreet - it's not dead at all, yet they are opening a dominoes there when there's already one 5 minutes down the road in the nearest shopping complex, as well as a nandos, tgi, smash burger, giraffe etc etc.

What we could have done with was a quality local butcher. We have one down the road but that's in in a garden centre and typical price hikes apply. But anyway no, it's a dominoes. We voiced our opinion with the council - nobody wanted or needed a dominoes there, but it didnt make any difference. Sometimes fast food joints or charity shops are the only places who want to open up on a highstreet these days.

Woburn Sands has a very pleasant high street.

Now Bletchley on the other hand...

h4rm0ny · 1 Apr 2017 at 23:39

B&W said:
Were a bit more as is evident by basic reality. Anyway look after our species first.

It's an untidy way of thinking that considers animal a spectrum rather than a checkbox. Feels a little teleological, to be honest.

Amp34 · 1 Apr 2017 at 23:41

B&W said:
Were a bit more as is evident by basic reality. Anyway look after our species first.

Unless you don't believe in evolution* then we are animals. There is no debate.

*And even then the answer is still the same.

Threepwood · 2 Apr 2017 at 01:51

How animals are treated bleeds into how we treat other humans.

I find this whole argument confusing.. on the one hand you have halal at its core evolving into being a safe way to produce meat, which goes along with what some are saying (put humans first)... it also evolved into the fastest way of killing each animal with the least suffering. If done super properly the animal is not even allowed to see the knife. I don't know if this means more than that or if it is an allegory, meaning the animal should not even know it is coming, at all.

I do not see how proper halal was anything other than 'the best way to do it for everyone', it simply does not look to me to be 'the most painful, least safe way for the animal and the human way of doing it'.

I'm 100% sure that much of halal of today is just a stamp really, just profit. Cheap reared meat killed in a fearful way... But it seems like many things have been eroded by capitalism.

There is so much suffering in both sides for animals, mass commercialism of meat across the board has lead to some not very nice stuff really, halal or not halal.

I also don't get some of the animal must be stunned stuff because I was brought up on a smallholding and.... well... if a chicken was going to be killed and eaten you didn't try and humanely stun the chicken first, you got hold of it, stretched its neck and chopped its head off as quickly and quietly as you and your helper could. Bish bash bosh, chicken dinner.

It wasn't pretty but worked, not a lot of suffering.

Far less than being hung upside down and whizzed around the factory, getting electrocuted but only half stunned... waking up again now, flapping wings a bit.... oh no wing stuck in machine and broken, ow... now what. I wish they left me in that cage now, how I miss my gmo soy feed... freedom!!!! I have escape the machine!!! But the people with the dead eyes are coming for me. Kicked to death. Thrown against a wall.

But people would rather ignore loads of this and just argue about the best bad way of killing them while ignoring everything else.

Think I read the EU is going to make it law that all abattoirs have to film what is going on, which is a start... except we are leaving EU... opening the doors to all the real wrong 'uns, sigh.

Edit:

“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” -Mahatma Gandhi

StriderX · 2 Apr 2017 at 03:00

Uhh no, veterinary science recommends unconsciousness via gas, stun gun or instant death via bullet, anything else is poor. I'm sure it won't matter once protein can be successfully grown and no doubt entirely ruined by profiteering, because it'd be just far too expensive in comparison to do it "normally".

jamoor · 2 Apr 2017 at 05:24

High streets are dead because they have been replaced with something consumers prefer, simple really.

It's the same reason we don't use horse and carriages or steam trains.