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Official RX580,RX570,RX560 and RX550 series review thread
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Soldato
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Yea the 285 was GCN 1.2 compared to the 280 which was GCN 1.0 effectively a 7970ghz. It did have improvements but less shader's so was a bit weaker in a lot of games. You did have to know your stuff if you were buying some of these re-brands and some were pretty cheeky from AMD.
Soldato
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Soldato
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I'd argue yes. You don't get all the new shiny stuff in a rebadge you might get in a new card (as is in the video in this thread: https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/threads/innovation-vs-rebranding.18776665/).
But if you're happy to pay AMD to make stickers to stick over the box of the previous gen cards then I guess that's up to you.
I'd say you'd get more out of going 780Ti -> 980Ti or 980Ti -> 1080Ti than you would going 290X -> 390X or RX480 -> RX580.
I just get this funny feeling that if Nvidia were still rebadging the 780Ti to the 980Ti and then the 1080Ti then we'd be hearing all about "Evil Nvidia" (not saying this would be from you) but since it's AMD doing it it's perfectly acceptable and furthermore a good idea for both AMD and the customers. Producing more powerful GPUs is just encouraging the developers to be lazy and not optimise!
I'm sure soon it'll be the developers fault that AMD did the rebadging because Nvidia are paying them to do something.
Just feel like it's always the same here, AMD can do no wrong ever and Nvidia can't do anything thing right.
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Soldato
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Nvidia have the gtx1060 on the market. Is it any better than my 290/390 apart from sipping less Juice. I would argue not really. Has it moved the game forward in this price bracket? Again i would say not really. AMD have used what they had to stay in the game until they can come up for air. It's not great but it has gotten them through some tough times and i can see why they are doing it. I don't like it but the company with more money has kept the performance very similar as well which imo has helped AMD out in a way.
It's not a case of Nvidia doing wrong or AMD doing wrong it's just a case of you can't blame one for not moving things on when the other is doing something similar. They have both kept performance pretty similar but have done it in 2 different ways. I don't know what this had to do with developers and Nvidia paying them. If they are paying them it's not enough as Nvidia now don't have the fastest card in the segment. AMD performance is where it needs to be in this segment atm to compete well with Nvidia. AMD will most likely be back in trouble when Volta arrives if they don't have any Vega chips to compete down at this level.
Soldato
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Nvidia are moving things on though, with things like the 1080Ti. They'll always need mid range cards, just because AMD's old top-end cards are now offering similar performance doesn't mean that AMD shouldn't strive for something more.
I'd rather have seen RX Vega than the RX 580. I'm not even sure what the point of the RX 580 is? So it now looks like the RX480 is the top-end card in the 400 series, unless AMD release some 500 series cards and then go back and finish the 400 series line-up. I'd say the 1080Ti has moved things on more than the RX480 has.
Nvidia could release the 1160, 1260, 1360, 1460, 1560 and 1660 just by rebadging the 1060 and releasing them a week apart but that doesn't mean they should.
If all AMD are gonna do is release rebadged cards with the same performance as the last ones why did they bother with the RX480 at all, they could've just rebadged the 290/390?
So what does the RX 580 offer that the RX 480 didn't? Why was it needed?
There were a number of people complaining that the 1080 wasn't a huge improvement over the 980Ti. When in fact it was a replacement for the 980 non-Ti, which I think it was noticeably faster than. The 1080Ti seems noticeably faster than the 980Ti. I've not checked but I'd guess the 1060 is noticeably faster than the 960. But the 580 is what, 5% faster than the 480? So the 1080 was criticised for not being a huge improvement but people don't see anything wrong with the 480 -> 580 performance gap?
So,
960 -> 1060
970 -> 1070
980 -> 1080
980Ti -> 1080Ti
And you say Nvidia aren't moving things on any more than AMD that have done:
RX470 -> RX570
RX480 -> RX580
Don't get me wrong, if Nvidia print up new sticky labels and rebadge all the 1000 series cards as 1100 series cards I'll wonder what the point of that is too.
Soldato
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I was not talking about it in that way.
You could get a 290 or a gtx780 for around £200-250. Then you could get a 390 or 970 for that kind of price. Now you can get a 480/580/1060 for that kind of price. You couldn't however get a 1070/980/1080/980ti/1080ti. We are only talking about this particular price bracket and segment of the market. The only cards out of those you mentioned that are to do with this are the 1060/970/290/390/480/580. The oldest chip of the bunch is the 290/390 and imo Nvidia have not even beaten that yet.
Nvidia have driven overall performance on but not in this part of the market which has stayed pretty much similar which is why such an old chip can still compete. Nvidia could re-brand the 1070 and release it at a lower price when the time comes. It won't bother me as it would be upping the performance for this price bracket. Any how in my eyes they are both guilty of not giving us better performance here. If i want an upgrade it will most likely be through Vega and i will have to pay a lot more than the £200 i did for the 290 but Brexit had a big impact on that as well.
The reason they never just re-badged the 290/390 is obvious. A node shrink happened and they seen a way to make a smaller, cheaper chip. For AMD it's all about cost cutting to stay in the game atm and re-branding perfectly good hardware that competes well makes more sense business wise than an all new chip. It doesn't look like the 1060 is going anywhere soon either so the 480/580 should be good for a little bit longer.
Any how i am looking forward to Vega and Volta as GCN and Maxwell/Pascal are getting boring although i can still see the 580 becoming the 660/670
Soldato
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I was not talking about it in that way.
You could get a 290 or a gtx780 for around £200-250. Then you could get a 390 or 970 for that kind of price. Now you can get a 480/580/1060 for that kind of price. You couldn't however get a 1070/980/1080/980ti/1080ti. We are only talking about this particular price bracket and segment of the market. The only cards out of those you mentioned that are to do with this are the 1060/970/290/390/480/580. The oldest chip of the bunch is the 290/390 and imo Nvidia have not even beaten that yet.
Nvidia have driven overall performance on but not in this part of the market which has stayed pretty much similar which is why such an old chip can still compete. Nvidia could re-brand the 1070 and release it at a lower price when the time comes. It won't bother me as it would be upping the performance for this price bracket. Any how in my eyes they are both guilty of not giving us better performance here. If i want an upgrade it will most likely be through Vega and i will have to pay a lot more than the £200 i did for the 290 but Brexit had a big impact on that as well.
The reason they never just re-badged the 290/390 is obvious. A node shrink happened and they seen a way to make a smaller, cheaper chip. For AMD it's all about cost cutting to stay in the game atm and re-branding perfectly good hardware that competes well makes more sense business wise than an all new chip. It doesn't look like the 1060 is going anywhere soon either so the 480/580 should be good for a little bit longer.
Any how i am looking forward to Vega and Volta as GCN and Maxwell/Pascal are getting boring although i can still see the 580 becoming the 660/670
The 290/390 wasn't £200 brand new at launch, they were that price when they were end-of-life. Comparing them to cards that cost that much at launch is like comparing apples to oranges. Wait until the 1060 is at the end of it's life and take it's price then, or take the 290/390 at launch price of around £300-400 (depending on model) and compare that to current £300-400 cards and see if performance has moved on.
There's also the point that you can't buy the 290/.390/970 new any more.
If the 480 became the 570 and they released something new as the 580 then I could understand it a bit more but the cards are just like-for-like replacements. They're just like factory overclocked versions. back in the 7970 days they just released the 1GHz edition, they didn't rebadge everything to the 8000 series just so they could apply a slight overclock and re-launch all the cards.
The only reason I can see for releasing the 570 and 580 is to make a lot of 470 and 480 owners think their cards are out of date and need to be replaced or can be replaced with a better performing card. Great way to siphon money from the less informed customers. Anyone going 960 -> 1060 or 970 -> 1070 did at least get a noticeable upgrade.
Would have been ok if the 580 offered 5% better performance than the 480 at the same power consumption level. But it takes 30% more power for it to do that which is the big issue here.
Hopefully vega can change that but wont hold my breath.
Hopefully vega can change that but wont hold my breath.
Exactly that. Though I would say on the latter point with Nvidia's cards, it's not an equivalent upgrade, since people would be paying a price tier up for the GPUs. Value changes and close price points make comparisons a bit difficult, but imagine a 370 being 280X price with 380 performance. Making the number a bit smaller makes it look like you're getting more for your money, but when you realise what one pays, then it's not too different. 1070 is a bit of an exception though, 980ti perf for price-drop 980 prices.
Anyhows, "I told ya so", especially when I told people to snap up the price-drop RX 480s. Those £150 480s a month ago make the current 500 series launch look pointless. A tenner cheaper... well the prices are pretty much what the 480 launched at (just lok at OCUKs pre-order listings) and the slightly better clocks provide performance just eeking out the margin of error difference (see DigitialFoundry's video). These GPUs are only for folks who didn't get a 400 series card and have permanently missed out on the better value that the 400 series offers. Which are still around, you can still get a 4GB Asus Dual 480 for under £180 so grab them while you still can. Only exception might be the very low end 550. And the worst bit is the power consumption. We would have at least hoped that a refresh would have better efficiency, not the same or worse...
The only worrying thing is that Nvidia hasn't done any rebrands for a while and for them it would absolutely make sense (and they could get away with it) from a business standpoint if the 1100 series was just a 1000 series rebrand. Especially as they have no reason to release anything much more powerful when there's nothing to compete. Worst case scenario, 1100 series is both a rebrand and a price jump in the same way the 1000 series was a price jump from 900 series. I realise that those of us expecting 1170s with 1080ti performance have little hope. Only if Nvidia want to snuff AMD out, will they make such GPUs next year.
The bread and butter sales are the cards that are under £200 (if my memory serves me correctly on price), so whilst the 580 Vs the 480 is a meh fight, if AMD have the price correctly set at under £200, it should sell well. I should work in dollars really, as that is what AMD/NVidia use for MSRP and again, if the price is good, they will sell. I can also appreciate why AMD have released these 2 cards, as Joe Bloggs who is new to PC gaming or wanting to upgrade his older machine will see the 570/80 as a decent investment and it is new and the 1060 is old, so mind games will help here (I guess).
I can see why AMD have re-released these 470s and 480s and I hope it nets them some decent margins and puts some much needed money in the coffers. Hopefully nobody will be upgrading from a 470 to a 570 and 480 to a 580, as that would be silly but coming from a 79XX or even older card will see a real nice upgrade for them. We still have Vega to come for the high end and everything is tight lipped around it but if the leaks are true and it is around the 1070/80 performance for less money, that will be an attractive card. If it is closer to the 1080Ti or even faster, this could really see AMD gaining some big market share.
Just looking at UK prices and this won't help AMD
A 4GB 580 for the same price as a 8GB 480 but I guess the informed would grab the 8GB and the uninformed would grab the 4GB.
I can see why AMD have re-released these 470s and 480s and I hope it nets them some decent margins and puts some much needed money in the coffers. Hopefully nobody will be upgrading from a 470 to a 570 and 480 to a 580, as that would be silly but coming from a 79XX or even older card will see a real nice upgrade for them. We still have Vega to come for the high end and everything is tight lipped around it but if the leaks are true and it is around the 1070/80 performance for less money, that will be an attractive card. If it is closer to the 1080Ti or even faster, this could really see AMD gaining some big market share.
Just looking at UK prices and this won't help AMD
A 4GB 580 for the same price as a 8GB 480 but I guess the informed would grab the 8GB and the uninformed would grab the 4GB.
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Soldato
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It is an underdog thing. Everyone likes an underdog and hence the support for AMD but it can get tedious when you question anything AMD do and you get put in the stocks prior to your public hanging.
Soldato
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It is an underdog thing. Everyone likes an underdog and hence the support for AMD but it can get tedious when you question anything AMD do and you get put in the stocks prior to your public hanging.
The know it alls here at OCUK are the worst. I go to other forums and this place is much worse. It really does do my head in. I just don't bother with them at all. Annoying as hell.
I would say there is very little to choose between forums when it comes to "Know it alls", they live out their lives arguing points of order on the forums because that is all their lives amount to.
Caporegime
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Why are you here again? I don't think I've ever seen you post constructively in this place, always moan moan moan.
I think even the hardcore AMD fans are going to have to put their pitch forks away for this one.It is an underdog thing. Everyone likes an underdog and hence the support for AMD but it can get tedious when you question anything AMD do and you get put in the stocks prior to your public hanging.
Soldato
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Who you trying to fool mate? Your one of the biggest moaners here.
Of course prices will *eventually* drop down. You're not a genius for predicting that.
But you said that prices would drop specifically due to 470/480 stock being eliminated. That's not likely going to happen, sorry Nostradamus.