Explosion in Dortmund...

[Orionaut]

I have no idea, do you want to try and convince me 1% of a total isn't a minority too? Which was what was being discussed at the time

But it isn't about percentages really is it.

It is about numbers, and the influence that those numbers have on the wider majority.

1% (Your figure I assume, implying insignificance) of UK Muslims is going to be around 30,000 people. To put this in perspective, the current British Army has about 80,000 personnel under active service.

Active, fire breathing, Nazis probably didn't exceed more than 1% of Germans during the 1930's either.

And an awful lot of the remaining majority will be sympathetic to that 1% (Do not know what the UK figure will be, but globally it is likely to be 30% or more)

This level of threat would not have been tolerated in 1939. German ex-pats (Including refugees) were interned and only released once we were sure that they were OK. (Which most were after a short time)

(Across the pond, Many Japanese-Americans were interned for the duration, Everybody is all touchy-feely and apologetic now, but the American government was absolutely right at the time IMO)

1% may well be a "Small Minority" but it is by no means an insignificant one, at all.

 

[Freakbro]

But it isn't about percentages really is it.

It is when you are discussing what a minority is, which is what was being discussed in the previously cited discussion

1% may well be a "Small Minority" but it is by no means an insignificant one, at all.

Never said it was, in fact in the discussion I even stated it can be a large number, still doesn't stop it bring a minority....which was what was being disputed.

Like I said, there's little point arguing with an idiot because they drag you down to their level and win with experience (talking about the previous discussion, not this one)

 

[Raz]

But it isn't about percentages really is it.

It is about numbers, and the influence that those numbers have on the wider majority.

1% (Your figure I assume, implying insignificance) of UK Muslims is going to be around 30,000 people. To put this in perspective, the current British Army has about 80,000 personnel under active service.

Active, fire breathing, Nazis probably didn't exceed more than 1% of Germans during the 1930's either.

And an awful lot of the remaining majority will be sympathetic to that 1% (Do not know what the UK figure will be, but globally it is likely to be 30% or more)

This level of threat would not have been tolerated in 1939. German ex-pats (Including refugees) were interned and only released once we were sure that they were OK. (Which most were after a short time)

(Across the pond, Many Japanese-Americans were interned for the duration, Everybody is all touchy-feely and apologetic now, but the American government was absolutely right at the time IMO)

1% may well be a "Small Minority" but it is by no means an insignificant one, at all.

To be fair, the world is a different place than it was 70 years ago and people don't really neatly fit into a single category as much as they used to. British Muslims fighting in the British Army in Iraq and Afghanistan, and English converts to Islam joining IS etc are examples of this.

 

[dowie]

It was a bit of an oblique reference to the time a div on here was arguing against me that 1% of muslims being terrorists wasn't a minority

ah didn't realise, who was that?

 

[Arazi]

But it isn't about percentages really is it.

It is about numbers, and the influence that those numbers have on the wider majority.

1% (Your figure I assume, implying insignificance) of UK Muslims is going to be around 30,000 people. To put this in perspective, the current British Army has about 80,000 personnel under active service.

Active, fire breathing, Nazis probably didn't exceed more than 1% of Germans during the 1930's either.

And an awful lot of the remaining majority will be sympathetic to that 1% (Do not know what the UK figure will be, but globally it is likely to be 30% or more)

This level of threat would not have been tolerated in 1939. German ex-pats (Including refugees) were interned and only released once we were sure that they were OK. (Which most were after a short time)

(Across the pond, Many Japanese-Americans were interned for the duration, Everybody is all touchy-feely and apologetic now, but the American government was absolutely right at the time IMO)

1% may well be a "Small Minority" but it is by no means an insignificant one, at all.

Well said, but you will face dodgy tactics from the usual posters.

 

[Arazi]

ah didn't realise, who was that?

Me, but that minority is a very large number, just like here in the UK pointed out by Orionaut above. But the Freak couldnt accept that and tried to drag me into an arguement over 1% being\not being a minority, it is a minority, but it's a very large minority.

 

[Freakbro]

ah didn't realise, who was that?

I had to search back and for once Arazi is right, it was him!

Twice I see he defended his assertion 1% isn't a minority, this is my favourite though..

There ~1.6 billion muslims, lets just say 1% are terrorists and sympathisers, how many is that?

I am not being funny but a bit of maths and common sense will floor any "it's just a minority" argument.

A bit of maths and common sense will floor [that 1%] is any "it's just a minority" argument.....

At least now he has acknowledged above 1% is a minority, now we just need to educate him on the difference between very large and very small

but that minority is a very large number, just like here in the UK pointed out by Orionaut above. But the Freak couldnt accept that

Wrong again, I know exactly what you are saying, agreed and acknowledged 1% can be a 'large number of things/people' it can also be a 'very small number of things/people' which is why when using comparatives we use %'s and terms such as majority and minority when the raw number doesn't tell you anything.

So you can't say 1% of the total is a large number therefore it's not a minority....well, you can, but you just make yourself look a fool.

 

[dowie]

But to be fair he hasn't stated that 1% isn't a minority - he's arguing that it is still a large number of people. If talking about all muslims worldwide or all muslims in the UK etc..

Anyway there are various % of various populations sympathising with different terrorist actions, groups etc.. and sadly the %s in favour can frequently be pretty significant minorities and in some cases majorities even.

 

[Tefal]

It is when you are discussing what a minority is, which is what was being discussed in the previously cited discussion



Never said it was, in fact in the discussion I even stated it can be a large number, still doesn't stop it bring a minority....which was what was being disputed.

Like I said, there's little point arguing with an idiot because they drag you down to their level and win with experience (talking about the previous discussion, not this one)

So would you be happy with the phrase "a large number of Muslims"?

but all this arguing semantics of if its a minority etc etc does kinda just dodge the question,...so what do we do about it?

 

[Freakbro]

But to be fair he hasn't stated that 1% isn't a minority - he's arguing that it is still a large number of people. If talking about all muslims worldwide or all muslims in the UK etc..

Anyway there are various % of various populations sympathising with different terrorist actions, groups etc.. and sadly the %s in favour can frequently be pretty significant minorities and in some cases majorities even.

So would you be happy with the phrase "a large number of Muslims"?

but all this arguing semantics of if its a minority etc etc does kinda just dodge the question,...so what do we do about it?

The point is, he has said 1% isn't a minority and I know exactly what he is saying to which I have also agreed that that there is a 'large number of Islamic terrorists'.

It's not just semantics over a word, it is the complete wrong use of the word.....which when taken in the context of the conversations that were being had, was important.

Basically, he used to come into threads with sweeping generalisations about all muslims when talking about the extremists, so when people pointed out that it is only a minority and that his extreme solutions (deport all muslims blah blah) were over the top he just shouts around 'minority my arse, you're just an apologist' and all the usual rubbish.

So rather than just acknowledging he used the word incorrectly he doubled down.

As to what we do about it, well we are doing a lot about it, this isn't going to be solved in 5 mins or 5 years and ridiculous suggestions like 'lock everyone up who is on a watch list, and ******** to the cost' is just idiocy and not a realistic solution in any rational persons mind.

 

[datalol-jack]

As to what we do about it, well we are doing a lot about it, this isn't going to be solved in 5 mins or 5 years and ridiculous suggestions like 'lock everyone up who is on a watch list, and ******** to the cost' is just idiocy and not a realistic solution in any rational persons mind.

Well quite and it's already not cheap. PREVENT is one such programme in the UK, specifically, alongside the surveillance work already carried out by the relevant agencies, with all its faults and false detections. Further, the 'kill them all' punishment strategy also sees us continuing or propping up, against better judgement, our relationships with Middle-Eastern autocrats, who in turn produce more extremists and violent revolutionaries, whose influence then affects our own citizens, ordinary Muslims stuck in war zones and arguably the autocrats themselves. Regardless, we will have 5 more mins or 5 years of threads of prejudiced hysterics like Arazi's arguing the opposite, focusing on one section of extremists to score political points, depending on what's trending in his personal media feed. It's really not worth arguing further: the ranter is free to rant, but he has neither the public support nor power to make any of his drivel a reality. And that's the end of it.

 

[Raz]

Well quite and it's already not cheap. PREVENT is one such programme in the UK, specifically, alongside the surveillance work already carried out by the relevant agencies, with all its faults and false detections. Further, the 'kill them all' punishment strategy also sees us continuing or propping up, against better judgement, our relationships with Middle-Eastern autocrats, who in turn produce more extremists and violent revolutionaries, whose influence then affects our own citizens, ordinary Muslims stuck in war zones and arguably the autocrats themselves. Regardless, we will have 5 more mins or 5 years of threads of prejudiced hysterics like Arazi's arguing the opposite, focusing on one section of extremists to score political points, depending on what's trending in his personal media feed. It's really not worth arguing further: the ranter is free to rant, but he has neither the public support nor power to make any of his drivel a reality. And that's the end of it.

If it were that simple then the likes of Trump wouldn't have the support. There's a "minority" of posters here who repeat the same rhetoric and have no problem in believing false news if it aligns with their views. Obviously out in the real world it's a sizeable group because otherwise there wouldn't be far right political groups who themselves spread false information (though others are guilty of that crime). Trump, the son of an immigrant and married to an immigrant, won votes on his stance on immigration amongst other things. Let's see how France goes...

 

[Tefal]

The point is, he has said 1% isn't a minority and I know exactly what he is saying to which I have also agreed that that there is a 'large number of Islamic terrorists'.

It's not just semantics over a word, it is the complete wrong use of the word.....which when taken in the context of the conversations that were being had, was important.

.

What's the definition of litteraly?

 

[Arazi]

Freakbro, have you got a hard on for this minority crap you keep posting about in every one of these threads, i posted that post weeks ago also, why do you keep bringing it up?

You have no arguement and most people reading this thread and others are probably laughing at what you post, everybody else understood that i meant the minority is a very large number AND most people actually know this, but you and your other clan of deflect and defend buddies keep posting about it.

World wide 1% of Muslims is a massive number, minority or not.

You have a problem.

 

[datalol-jack]

If it were that simple then the likes of Trump wouldn't have the support. There's a "minority" of posters here who repeat the same rhetoric and have no problem in believing false news if it aligns with their views. Obviously out in the real world it's a sizeable group because otherwise there wouldn't be far right political groups who themselves spread false information (though others are guilty of that crime). Trump, the son of an immigrant and married to an immigrant, won votes on his stance on immigration amongst other things. Let's see how France goes...

Oh, I don't dispute that some people are quite vocal, but which of their personal obsessions are bearing fruit?

Has Trump smashed ISIS within 30 days? 100? What about Putin's quest in the near abroad? Bibi? Assad's dad? Assad? Saudis? Saddam? The list literally carries on to include every strongman waving a phallic war-stick for ratings, and contains people who have killed, tortured and spied on people far beyond the European far-right's wettest dreams whilst fighting actual and alleged extremism. Yet it turns out extremism is not as simple as killing and displacing people you don't like, like in a conventional state-on-state war. Even Bush understood that. Most importantly, they have not solved the need for violence to keep their own power base up, nor the violence in their regions of strategic influence, nor at home. So, yes, I'd take a rational rain-check on what Trump, FN, UKIP, EDL, BF, AFD, et al are peddling. It's mostly repackaged hatred, ignorance and hot air. No solutions.

Racism and other mass phobias play a part in modern populism, yes, but they're far from its main component, otherwise the other counter-voices - the SNP in Scotland, the far left in France, old-school social democrats in Germany, Greens in Austria, etc - would not be coming up as much as they have; nor would the support for the far right be wobbling and dropping off, ironically in no small part due to the Trump effect on Europe.

But, hang on. There's a simpler problem with the shock and awe approach: How does electing a totally incompetent, inexperienced disaster on a minority of the popular vote - with foreign interferance and financial muscle directed directly against the interests of the very people they stirred up with panic and hatred - tells one something about popular sentiment and is an answer to extremism in society and the world? How that's an improvement over any of the current systems? It isn't. It's a far worse disaster waiting to happen.

France looks like a straight face off between Macron and Le Pen now, whilst each of the key four candidates was on about 20% of the vote going in, including Melenchon for the far left. I'm not expecting any surprises - FN does not have a broad support base, and like Fillon is entangled in a corruption scandal.

 

[matt100]

Freakbro, have you got a hard on for this minority crap you keep posting about in every one of these threads, i posted that post it weeks ago also, why do you keep bringing it up?

You have no arguement and most people reading this thread and others are probably laughing at what you post, everybody else understood that i meant the minority is a very large number AND most people actually know this, but you and your other clan of deflect and defend buddies keep posting about it.

World wide 1% of Muslims is a massive number, minority or not.

You have a problem.

I wonder what the percentage of white uk nationals are knee jerk one track minders who would blame bad weather on immigrants and muslims given the chance?

 

[Dis86]

I wonder what the percentage of white uk nationals are knee jerk one track minders who would blame bad weather on immigrants and muslims given the chance?

Who cares? They're not gonna board a train full of people and blow themselves up are they?

 

[Freakbro]

I wonder what the percentage of white uk nationals are knee jerk one track minders who would blame bad weather on immigrants and muslims given the chance?

Definitely not a minority

Who cares? They're not gonna board a train full of people and blow themselves up are they?

Is that the only criteria to be concerned about things now?

 

[matt100]

Who cares? They're not gonna board a train full of people and blow themselves up are they?

No they tend to prop up governments that support illegal wars, extra judicial killings, drone strikes, "collateral damage" and turn a blind eye to atrocities such as chemical strikes.

And lets remind ourselves this particular thing we're discussing here has NOTHING to do with any religion other than the love of money.

More people are killed by cars, we don't lock up all cars, specially hot hatches I'd guess cause a lot more accidents, we don't ban them. For the most part it's only men who commit sexual assaults and I'm prepared to guess significantly, like exponentially more of them than terrorist strikes.. do we ban dicks or lock up all men?

The silliest part is when you start nibbling away at your quality of life, start eroding freedoms and make us distrustful of each other you're actually handing a win to the people who are trying to hurt you and hand more power to whatever authoritarian government you just voted for.

Genius move guys

 

[Arazi]

I wonder what the percentage of white uk nationals are knee jerk one track minders who would blame bad weather on immigrants and muslims given the chance?

Here is your answer matt100

Who cares? They're not gonna board a train full of people and blow themselves up are they?

MATT100, here is what makes me laugh, how come Dis's reply never crossed your mind before you posted your drivel above, you are just like the other members of a clan on here.
Stop running around what you really want to say, which is that its the west's fault, no?