Which will be a soft brexit involving keeping access to the single market.
Poll: Poll: Prime Minister Theresa May calls General Election on June 8th
- Thread starter Destination
- Start date
- Status
Which will be a soft brexit involving keeping access to the single market.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ering-general-election-undermine-theresa-may/
The general public will loathe the EU by 2019 if what we have seen so far is anything to go by.
Permabanned
- Joined
- 9 Jun 2009
- Posts
- 11,924
- Location
- London, McLaren or Radical
Take the privatisation of the NHS as one of many side effect of the Cons in power... surely that will worsen your back pocket and/or heighten the health risk for you and your family.
Permabanned
- Joined
- 9 Jun 2009
- Posts
- 11,924
- Location
- London, McLaren or Radical
I thought as much, but at least I want to learn about the "other side" whereas most I've spoken to who have been willing to express the view that they want to vote Cons are rarely able to justify anything about their decision.
Permabanned
- Joined
- 9 Jun 2009
- Posts
- 11,924
- Location
- London, McLaren or Radical
It's an interesting one for sure.
Especially fun when you point out Blair's government was more like mini-Cons than an actual Labour gov.
Things have been skewed in such a way to try and take away peoples' confidence in Corbyn... what I see is that his leadership is getting the Cons politicians who are wearing the Labour mask to finally leave the party.
Because they like getting income tax cuts and don't understand (or don't give a ****) how they're paid for.
There's an irony, that much like the Labour party has been hijacked by Conservatives, the Conservative party itself isn't ideologically conservative at all, it's deconstructive and regressive.
Last edited:
Permabanned
- Joined
- 9 Jun 2009
- Posts
- 11,924
- Location
- London, McLaren or Radical
For the vast majority of people, voting for what benefits others is the same as voting for what benefits yourself.
If someone looks only at a few £ in their pocket vs the other sly increases and privatisations leading to higher costs in other areas, it's incredibly short sighted.
I did say to him Blair was more Tory than some of his party is which didnt go down to well
Permabanned
- Joined
- 9 Jun 2009
- Posts
- 11,924
- Location
- London, McLaren or Radical
Soldato
- Joined
- 1 Mar 2010
- Posts
- 6,316
@satchef1
We don't live in a neatly categorised world, and 100% vote conversion can never be assured. Yet even on that political compass, you can triangulate a manifesto which would suit not only 'the left' but most Tories. Looking at a website with questions more relevant to the UK (https://uk.isidewith.com/), the overlap between LDs, Greens and Labour is about 70% in my case. The centre is a dynamic position, not the point of origin.
Additionally, there are periods where solutions to problems forced by events are largely technocratic and transcend ideological considerations. Presently, everyone and their uncle are set for raising more revenue from taxes and managing Brexit, for example; prior to that, the crash and FPTP itself straining to answer a more fragmented electorate warranted such solutions.
One can get triggered about purity of alignment and party identity, or one can seek power. Tories - a coalition of libertarians, apolitical capitalists, status quo communitarians, traditional (social) conservatives, One Nation Tories, national liberals, nationalists, unionists, Kipper refugees, hardcore Blue Labour who switched and sundry nutters - do precisely the latter, and, surprise, surprise - they get power more often.
We don't live in a neatly categorised world, and 100% vote conversion can never be assured. Yet even on that political compass, you can triangulate a manifesto which would suit not only 'the left' but most Tories. Looking at a website with questions more relevant to the UK (https://uk.isidewith.com/), the overlap between LDs, Greens and Labour is about 70% in my case. The centre is a dynamic position, not the point of origin.
Additionally, there are periods where solutions to problems forced by events are largely technocratic and transcend ideological considerations. Presently, everyone and their uncle are set for raising more revenue from taxes and managing Brexit, for example; prior to that, the crash and FPTP itself straining to answer a more fragmented electorate warranted such solutions.
One can get triggered about purity of alignment and party identity, or one can seek power. Tories - a coalition of libertarians, apolitical capitalists, status quo communitarians, traditional (social) conservatives, One Nation Tories, national liberals, nationalists, unionists, Kipper refugees, hardcore Blue Labour who switched and sundry nutters - do precisely the latter, and, surprise, surprise - they get power more often.
Permabanned
- Joined
- 9 Jun 2009
- Posts
- 11,924
- Location
- London, McLaren or Radical
Me too but I don't actually think that is required.
Look at Switzerland as a good example, taxes there are very low but they have one of the best countries in the world for many aspects.
Even their private health care is very good, so is their benefit system... that style of healthcare system I would support... they have better care, pension and benefits for what constitutes less than the 11% NI we pay for those services.
Unfortunately we seem to be pushed towards the American system, one of the worst in the world where it is all about profit and nothing else.
Permabanned
- Joined
- 9 Jun 2009
- Posts
- 11,924
- Location
- London, McLaren or Radical
Blair's more Tory than most ToriesI did say to him Blair was more Tory than some of his party is which didnt go down to well
I think you'd likely find everyone is like that in one way or another, regardless of which end of the political spectrum they lie on.
Everything revolves around your own personal set of circumstances.
Just picking on a few of Corbyns policies:
- Re-nationalising British Rail. - The rail infrastructure requires huge amounts of money to reinvest and bring it into a modern age. So the likely result here is that the government takes over, and then realises they won't be able to afford the large scale projects that are required. I used to be a regular rail user for 4 years, so i do hold some bitterness towards the private companies in terms of keep bumping the prices up.
- Abolishing zero-hour contracts. - There was an interesting thread on here a couple of weeks back discussing the use of these contracts, and as some have said, they actually like the luxury of the zero hour contract. So rather than a heavy handed approach in blanket banning them, it would make more sense to limiting how an employer can use them - i.e. i've always said if a worker is regularly being asked to work 15+ hours a week over a 6 week period, then their contract should change to the 15 hours.
As per my previous reply to another poster; I do not disagree with the reasoning, just perhaps the priority or order. Generally speaking most people are centrist, which would suggest that ultimately what you would wish for yourself would align to the same wishes as a large section of society.
Rail infrastructure is done by Network Rail, which is more or less a government department, so the public already pay for investment. TOCs obviously bid for franchises and pay track access charges. I agree with Corbyn on rail - we already have contracts like the one signed with Southern Rail where they make money whether they run a train service or not, and the compensation to passengers comes from the government purse. If we're going to end up paying for it anyway then there's no point maintaining the complexities and inefficiencies that come by hanging onto this false idea that there's competition in rail travel.
Soldato
- Joined
- 20 Jun 2011
- Posts
- 3,675
- Location
- Livingston
Switzerland are moving with the times and forward in the right direction. I believe earlier this year a British research project ranked Switzerland as being the 7th most liberal country in the world.
The right to die speaks volumes to the depth of Swiss understanding and communication. As you say public health, wellbeing and care is up there with top priority. People are given dignity, compassion, support and much more freedom in comparison to the 'like it or lump it' system we have here in the UK.
We lack a single figure who is willing to discuss and debate controversial socialist issues. With a Tory government in power we will never have this option. If all our political figures are terrified of persecution by challenging the status quo, how on earth will we ever move forward?
Soldato
- Joined
- 20 Jun 2011
- Posts
- 3,675
- Location
- Livingston
The Telegraph are ******* themselves and will print or say anything to undermine Tory incompetence.
I'm sure you'll find by 2019, the opinion of the general public will go in the opposite direction (once people are able to admit to themselves they've been taken for mugs by the Tories and/or UKIP)
So government taking control of all TOC's just means a lot more work to do. Also now that it's all owned by a single entity, how do they determine which services run from where, and how frequently and at what cost. I think it's been regularly stated that a lot of the main services that run in and out of London actually subsidise a lot of the services in Scotland for example. A TOC can likely operate in the manner of making a loss on one line when they more than make up for it with another. I can't see how a government owned entity will ever be able to operate in that manner. Just look at how inefficiently run parts of the NHS is.
Soldato
- Joined
- 20 Jun 2011
- Posts
- 3,675
- Location
- Livingston
- Status