No such thing as 'fat but fit'

Roar87 · 17 May 2017 at 17:27

I've tried to tell people this for years, carrying excess bodyfat is in itself unhealthy. Run all the marathons you want but you're still unhealthy if you're overweight.

Greebo · 17 May 2017 at 17:31

I still want to know it its bett to be over your BMI and fit or spot on your BMI and unfit.

Tefal · 17 May 2017 at 17:32

define "fit"

Greebo · 17 May 2017 at 17:35

Tefal said:
define "fit"

Pass. How did they define "fit" in the study? I will bow down to medical opinion of fit.

Tefal · 17 May 2017 at 17:41

Greebo said:
Pass. How did they define "fit" in the study? I will bow down to medical opinion of fit.

they didn't, the guardian added that.

they just looked at % risk of cardiovascular disease in people who did not have any pre existing conditionsover the decades.

this might be more relevant to you

https://academic.oup.com/ije/articl...obic-fitness-in-late-adolescence-and-the-risk

Similar risks were found for weight-adjusted aerobic fitness. Aerobic fitness was associated with a reduced risk of death from any cause in normal-weight and overweight individuals, whereas the benefits were reduced in obese individuals (P < 0.001 for interaction). Furthermore, unfit normal-weight individuals had 30% lower risk of death from any cause (HR, 0.70; 95% CI, 0.53–0.92) than did fit obese individuals.

Conclusions: Low aerobic fitness in late adolescence is associated with an increased risk of early death. Furthermore, the risk of early death was higher in fit obese individuals than in unfit normal-weight individuals.

Greebo · 17 May 2017 at 17:43

Tefal said:
they didn't, the guardian added that.

they just looked at % risk of cardiovascular disease in people who did not have any pre existing conditionsover the decades.

this might be more relevant to you

https://academic.oup.com/ije/articl...obic-fitness-in-late-adolescence-and-the-risk

Thanks. Exactly the answer I was looking for. So its much much better to be a lazy, couch potato so long as you keep the weight off.

So really they didnt need this new study as that one from 2015 proves that if an unfit normal weight person is 30% less likely to die than a fit obese person, it was a much more accurate study than this one for proving that you can;t be as healthy being fit and obese.

Ocean Breeze · 17 May 2017 at 17:45

Here's an idea..don't be fat.

Tefal · 17 May 2017 at 17:45

yep

fat is a lot of unnecessary stress.

being lazy isnt.

Greebo · 17 May 2017 at 17:46

NinjaSeb said:
Here's an idea..don't be fat.

Sadly I am going to stay in the overweight column cause I just look wrong otherwise.

Amp34 · 17 May 2017 at 17:51

Psycho Sonny said:
which is why i said there are exceptions.

also marathons tend to do more damage than good. it's too long a distance and on hard surfaces. also a lot of people use incorrect shoes, etc.

sumo's didn't tend to be this big it's a modern thing. before they used to be chunky but respectable. now they are all trying to gain an advantage by being heavier than their opponent.

i don't see how anyone that is say bigger than say a 38" waist could be classified as fit. sumo's are likely to be what 50"+ waists?

TBH a lot of sports are not actually "good" for you if you're doing them at a high level. It's one of the reasons so many athletes retire early and why so many are falling apart in their 30s. Many will have a great resting heart rate but their joints will be shot.

Tefal · 17 May 2017 at 17:54

Amp34 said:
TBH a lot of sports are not actually "good" for you if you're doing them at a high level. It's one of the reasons so many athletes retire early and why so many are falling apart in their 30s. Many will have a great resting heart rate but their joints will be shot.

put it this way would you buy a car or a bike thats ben "tracked" for long term road use?

human body is no different except the repair team cant order upgraded aftermarket parts.

Amp34 · 17 May 2017 at 17:58

Tefal said:
err the study was focused on people dying young, not their ability to run. to them fit = not got heart disiease

which they couldn't test anyway as its an analysis of medical records.

Well yes. Not sure what that has to do with what I wrote though. I was responding to Arazis comment about them being fit which is clearly talking about how well they are conditioned for their sport, not the study - which uses the term healthy, not fit.

There are multiple definitions of the term "fit".

Edit: as you say yourself in a later post

Amp34 · 17 May 2017 at 18:11

Tefal said:
because that's really not how statistics work.

the number of people with a high bm,i but low body fat is very low in our population.

and as the study even states BMI is not for indivuiduals but for groups and trends.

So the study tells us high bmi = greater risk of XYZ over the years.

its then up to the individuals to asses thier own health.

you can't just take a tiny outlier and say it should apply to all.

but yeah im sure random dude on the internet is better positioned to declare the validity of a medical metadata study based on an article in the gaurdian than the peer review process of the journal it was published in.

I think, like most threads about BMI, the take away from this thread is that people need to be more honest with themselves. Yes there are some people that are technically classed as obese and have low body fat because of their muscle density, but the majority of people aren't in that category.

The majority of people that "feel" like BMI doesn't work for them - yet who would honestly say they have a little bit of chub here and there, or a "bit of a belly" - but can't be unhealthy because they play sport several times a week are the primary people that should be sitting up and taking note of this study. You may be fit, you may feel like BMI doesn't work and that the little bit of chub is not an issue but the reality is that it will give you a greater risk of heart disease.

We have a warped idea of what the human body should look like because we as a society are overweight. No ifs, no buts - the majority of us are overweight and could do with losing some body fat. That in turn means those that are actually healthy with a low body fat, but aren't at the gym lifting weights several times a week look overly skinny.

A complete change in thinking is needed really, because the current "normal" is not healthy, no matter how fit you think you are.

bainbridge · 17 May 2017 at 18:13

I agree that you can't be fat and fit

From the age of 18 to 35 I was 12 stone, skinny as a rake but fit as a fiddle.

Now at 40 I'm 13.5 stone and only feel fit when I'm training and losing weight. When being lazy I feel very unfit.

Vonhelmet · 17 May 2017 at 19:05

Amp34 said:
I think, like most threads about BMI, the take away from this thread is that people need to be more honest with themselves. Yes there are some people that are technically classed as obese and have low body fat because of their muscle density, but the majority of people aren't in that category.

The majority of people that "feel" like BMI doesn't work for them - yet who would honestly say they have a little bit of chub here and there, or a "bit of a belly" - but can't be unhealthy because they play sport several times a week are the primary people that should be sitting up and taking note of this study. You may be fit, you may feel like BMI doesn't work and that the little bit of chub is not an issue but the reality is that it will give you a greater risk of heart disease.

We have a warped idea of what the human body should look like because we as a society are overweight. No ifs, no buts - the majority of us are overweight and could do with losing some body fat. That in turn means those that are actually healthy with a low body fat, but aren't at the gym lifting weights several times a week look overly skinny.

A complete change in thinking is needed really, because the current "normal" is not healthy, no matter how fit you think you are.

Bmi as a measure of being overweight doesn't work for individuals, it's intended for populations. As I've said, I'm "overweight" according to bmi but I have a 30" waist, so I think it's fair to say it doesn't really work for me with my little ET legs and my disproportionately wide torso.

BuffetSlayer · 17 May 2017 at 19:29

Fat and fit is a very different thing to fat and healthy.

Amp34 · 17 May 2017 at 20:13

Vonhelmet said:
Bmi as a measure of being overweight doesn't work for individuals, it's intended for populations. As I've said, I'm "overweight" according to bmi but I have a 30" waist, so I think it's fair to say it doesn't really work for me with my little ET legs and my disproportionately wide torso.

It's also intended for individuals. Yes there are outlyers, and you may be one of them, but in general it's a pretty good indication of an individuals fat percentage.

The point is (especially in a forum where people can't physically see each other) you have to be honest with yourself. Too many people just insist they are "bulky" and muscular, not fat, whereas in fact in all likelihood they are carrying an unhealthy amount of fat.

Destination · 17 May 2017 at 20:23

Vanquish-Storm said:
Obese on what scale though? Going by BMI you can be classed as "obese" but have very low fat %

Obese on being a fat ******* scale.
Yes BMI is a relatively good way to judge a population, obviously you need to physically account for the person in front of you when deciding whether or not to apply it to a person in front of you.
The fact people jump upon the measure to denigrate it, while quoting the chap who can lift properly and has been ding it for ages is counterproductive, to the massive blob of offal who will claim BMi doesn't work as I read it on the internet, and I am 'healthy at my weight'.

Destination · 17 May 2017 at 20:24

Terminal_Boy said:
Exactly. Professional rugby players and infantry soldiers are often classed as obese going by their BMI scores.

Aye and those very people are not the ones this article is aimed at.
God, people jump all over this, constantly, fat apologists, the fatties hear you, and think you mean them!
Stop it.

Amp34 · 17 May 2017 at 20:28

Just found a photo of last years OcUK Meetup.

All the complaints about BMI not working makes sense now!

As we're on an online computer forum it makes sense most people on here take a lot of pride in their bodies, moreso than the general population...