Manchester Bombing *** Please remain respectful and refrain from antagonising posts ***

Psycho Sonny said:
or do what Trump did and close the borders to Arab's? sure there is some collateral damage and innocents aren't allowed in but so long as zero terrorists get in that is the whole point of doing it.
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Many of them are domestic, I doubt it's remotely close to being that simple.

In principle I agree to an extent with many of these comments about throwing a net over people on watch lists. However I can't see that ever happening, but something has to be done.

Leaders will condemn it, people will change their Facebook profile pictures, but then we'll just carry on as normal until it happens again. :(
 
Robbo said:
Many of them are domestic, I doubt it's remotely close to being that simple.

In principle I agree to an extent with many of these comments about throwing a net over people on watch lists. However I can't see that ever happening, but something has to be done.

Leaders will condemn it, people will change their Facebook profile pictures, but then we'll just carry on as normal until it happens again. :(
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The ones from the far east are the ones at the top though. Their hatred then flows down the chain. By stopping them you can stop the chain of it trickling down through to domestics. Ban all the associated websites too and trace who is looking at them.

You need proper undercovers going into mosques too and integrating into them and supplying info on who needs to be watched more closely.
 
ethan said:
I don't accept that. Take the example of Fairford airshow where hundreds of thousands of people walk through four portable scanners with armed guards at either side. Works for them.
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Another air show that springs to mind is the Farnborough Airshow disaster in 1952 where 29 people were killed when a plane came apart in midair and elements of it struck the crowd. Many injured as well. It's odd the way it progressed. The organisers cleared the debris from the runway and carried on with the show. I'm reading a book called Empire of the Clouds at the moment about the British aerospace industry and it tells several stories of that day including from a passenger saying that he and many others were sitting on their bus waiting into the evening to depart after the show only to realise that the bus driver was one of those killed. It's almost unimaginable things progressing the same way today, that news would spread of fatalities and the British public would sadly and patiently eat their packed lunches waiting for the next event.

Note, I know this could read like one of those "where's our British spirit gone" posts. I'm not saying that such "Stiff Upper Lip" reserve was better. I most definitely do not think that the people of Manchester are not showing courage right now because they are. It's a horrific event and I will NOT have anyone thinking I'm taking away from that. You just mentioned air shows and this is what sprung to mind for me, not Fairford security preventing such things but how at Farnborough a tragedy was reacted to quite differently. I suppose as a generation that had seen war up close and were so used to losing lives, there was little choice other than "stiff upper lip". I hope this attack is isolated and we can continue to treat such things as the terrible tragedies that they are rather than be forced to accept them as part of life as our grandparents had (not attacks, but losses of life). But I do believe that like our grandparents (or Great Grandparents, I forget I'm old now), we should not let the terrorists determine our way of life for us. We must prepare for terrorism, but not let it debase us.
 
Psycho Sonny said:
You need proper undercovers going into mosques too and integrating into them and supplying info on who needs to be watched more closely.
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I have no doubt this is happening and has been for a long time. The fact that incidents like this are so few and far between may well be down to our intelligence services
 
So someone has been arrested in connection with it. Have to say that was fast. A little too fast. How can the government arrest someone that quick. Surely that means they had info before?

As usual I see Daily mail readers blaming is liberals. I don't think any liberals condone this. Start blaming the government. They are in power and they apparently knew some information beforehand.

Saying that.... I don't want privacy invaded like Theresa has and wants to do with the internet. There are other solutions I'm sure.
 
d_brennen said:
I have no doubt this is happening and has been for a long time. The fact that incidents like this are so few and far between may well be down to our intelligence services
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Almost certainly, it's remarkable really there aren't many more attacks. The intelligence services are exceptional.
 
Psycho Sonny said:
or do what Trump did and close the borders to Arab's? sure there is some collateral damage and innocents aren't allowed in but so long as zero terrorists get in that is the whole point of doing it.
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It's futile. Sure, you might stop *new* terrorists coming in but you've still got to contend with the ones who are here and have already been radicalised and those who are here and *could* be radicalised. You could deport all Muslims (though I'm not sure how you know; there's no medical test for it). You could even go as far as deporting anyone who *looks* like they might be a terrorist. But that still leaves the millions of people who could potentially be radicalised via the internet or while they're abroad.

I think that while there's an imminent threat of non-domestic terrorism, it makes sense to increase security. That could even go as far as denying entry to citizens of particular countries. But really the best way to deal with this threat is to remain defiant. Be vigilant; report behaviour that you regard as suspicious. Generally speaking the security services do a good job of stopping attacks before they're viable because of these reports. We can never stop these attacks -- certainly not while we want to remain a power on the world stage -- but we can at the very least minimise their effects.
 
d_brennen said:
I have no doubt this is happening and has been for a long time. The fact that incidents like this are so few and far between may well be down to our intelligence services
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maybe in america. we are too lenient and soft in the country. no doubt it would breach their rights to practice religion or some such which is why it's not done. it's why we used to ship them to Guantanamo, etc. too soft here.
 
dalehitchy1 said:
Saying that.... I don't want privacy invaded like Theresa has and wants to do with the internet. There are other solutions I'm sure.
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It wouldn't work anyway. They'd have to outlaw or licence encryption, VPNs, etc. and that won't happen. They can force companies like WhatsApp to build backdoors, but that will push terrorists to use proprietary software. They could close off the internet entirely but they'd resort to using the telephone or snail mail. We simply don't have the resource to monitor all telephone calls or open and read all correspondence.
 
Robbo said:
Assuming this is an ISIS related incident - A friend of mine is ex Army and served in the middle east, he said that the Arab mindset is so massively different to our own that we'll never be able to change it. We're wasting our time there.
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Saddam Hussein said something similar before we executed him - that we (the West) would fail because we didn't understand the Arab mind. But whilst that might be true of people actually in the Middle East, Arab is a generic term. It's not a monolithic culture magically tied to DNA. Whether or not "the Arab mindset is massively different", it doesn't mean that any given person of Arabic descent shares that "Arab mindset". They have their own "Arab mindset". We have to be careful when talking about such things not to confuse races and ethnicities with nationalities or loyalties.


Abraxaz1 said:
Seems that there is a just giving page for the victims.

https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/westandtogethermanchester

Not sure what the money can do but might help.
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Well with the total raised so far, there's enough money to pay the funeral expenses of every person killed and still have some left over for aid for wounded. Obviously it will never, ever come close to making up for the loss or the terror, but I hope at least that such a gesture of solidarity and community will help the friends and families of the victims know that many thousands of people are thinking of them and sharing their grief. You can't put a price on that. Anything which helps these people at this time, basically...

Arazi said:
I thought exactly the same, balloons and such nonesense, complete ignorance.
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I was staying up watching the updates come in. At the beginning, there was almost no information beyond "loud bang" and people running. Everything seemed to be on the table at that point. Only when it was reported that there had been fatalities did it start to grow certain it was an attack.

d_brennen said:
I have no doubt this is happening and has been for a long time. The fact that incidents like this are so few and far between may well be down to our intelligence services
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There's always uncertainty with the Intelligence Agencies, but the head of MI5 said that they're prevented 34 terror attacks between 2005 and 2013. Undoubtedly many more since. Now not all of them will be like this, some may even be things that wouldn't have actually gone ahead in the end anyway. But it gives some idea of just how many threats they manage to shut down before they happen. Also, I think respect is due to the authorities and medical staff who got there and quickly began assisting and organising.
 
Psycho Sonny said:
or do what Trump did and close the borders to Arab's? sure there is some collateral damage and innocents aren't allowed in but so long as zero terrorists get in that is the whole point of doing it.
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Like the one who was from Birmingham?

Closing the borders won't stop any nut jobs who are born in the UK.
 
davido_labido said:
Well, I have learned one thing... never use the words 'final' and 'solution' together. I didn't know this was even a thing :o
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I think if you weren't a media pundit with a history of bigotry it would raise fewer eyebrows. I think if you were to say you have the final solution to a maths puzzle, people wouldn't be suspicious. However, if you're a well known hater of muslims who says "we need a final solution for muslims," people grant you a wee bit less benefit of the doubt...
 
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