Manchester Bombing *** Please remain respectful and refrain from antagonising posts ***

[scorza]

Does anyone actually Know what these modern terrorist actually want?

Is it for mass conversion to Islam or all out war with the west?

It just seems so weird to do such atrocities without actually stating the objectives of it all.

They've stated what they want many times, but the media hardly reports it out of fear of offending other Muslims http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/why-hate-you-isis-reveal-8533563

The word Islam means 'submission' in Arabic. I think they want everyone else to submit to them.

 

[h4rm0ny]

who here believes that the West and Islam will ever get along ?

I believe Islam can follow the course of Christianity and accept separation of Church and State. I believe it can be brought to ditch some of its cultural misogyny and homophobia. If you doubt it, look to Indonesia or the Kurds or numerous muslims who grew up in the West. Whether it will continue to progress this way or regress to ever more radical forms in the face of constant division and antipathy, I don't know. However, people are just people. They soak up the cultural values that are around them like a sponge. Lots of peaceful and pleasant muslims in the UK.

 

[dowie]

Irresponsible to report that unless it's been officially released to the press by the British authorities. It just helps any associates do a runner or anyone who might have evidence to dispose of it.

Well it is all over UK publications now so not really a secret any more:

The man who blew himself up during an Ariana Grande concert at Manchester Arena has been named as 23-year-old Salman Abedi, US officials have said.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...identity-suicide-bomber-details-a7751791.html

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Does anyone actually Know what these modern terrorist actually want?

Is it for mass conversion to Islam or all out war with the west?

It just seems so weird to do such atrocities without actually stating the objectives of it all.

basically they believe they are the chosen ones by god. it's up to them to cause judgement day. where all the dead will rise and be judged and those judged to be righteous will rule the world.

that is why when a muslim dies they need to be buried ASAP so when judgement day comes they will rise as such as when they were buried.

they want to effectively wipe out all other religion and for islam to rule as that is what will happen on judgement day. if you can convert someone to the light then it's good as then they too will inherit the world on judgement day. otherwise it's okay to kill them.

.........

 

[scorza]

...I believe it can be brought to ditch some of its cultural misogyny and homophobia. If you doubt it, look to Indonesia or the Kurds or numerous muslims who grew up in the West.

I doubt it, so looked to Indonesia.

Whether it will continue to progress this way or regress to ever more radical forms in the face of constant division and antipathy, I don't know. However, people are just people. They soak up the cultural values that are around them like a sponge. Lots of peaceful and pleasant muslims in the UK.

I agree, but let's not pretend that there isn't a significant and serious problem in Muslim communities. Sorry if that offends anyone, but it's time to wake up now and see the bigger picture.

 

[dowie]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/23/salman-abedi-named-manchester-suicide-bomber-know/

Born in Manchester in 1994, the second youngest of four children his parents were Libyan refugees who came to the UK to escape the Gaddafi regime.

[...]

Abedi grew up in the Whalley Range area, just yards from the local girl's high school, which hit the headlines in 2015 when twins and grade A pupils, Zahra and Salma Halane, who were both aspiring medical students, left their homes and moved to Isil controlled Syria.

There were unconfirmed reports in Manchester that the whole family apart from the two elder sons recently returned to Libya.

 

[dowie]

That doesn't mean it wasn't irresponsible to report it . Obviously the genie's out of the bottle, but it shouldn't have been released.

I agree with you, I was just pointing out that they're all releasing it now.

 

[Abraxaz1]

basically they believe they are the chosen ones by god. it's up to them to cause judgement day. where all the dead will rise and be judged and those judged to be righteous will rule the world.

that is why when a muslim dies they need to be buried ASAP so when judgement day comes they will rise as such as when they were buried.

they want to effectively wipe out all other religion and for islam to rule as that is what will happen on judgement day. if you can convert someone to the light then it's good as then they too will inherit the world on judgement day. otherwise it's okay to kill them.

it's very much a religion of peace. honest guv'nor

Well that's Just mentally challenged, they do realise that one of the country's in the g8 have the ability to wipe the Middle East out, our weapon systems are at least 6 generations ahead.

I wonder what will happen when the world starts moving from a oil based economy causing the money heading to the Middle East to dry up.

 

[Caracus2k]

I wonder what will happen when the world starts moving from a oil based economy causing the money heading to the Middle East to dry up.

it will cause a massive influx of further immigration from countries like Saudi Arabia who won't be able to feed never mind find jobs for their populations in a theoretical post oil world....

 

[Avenged7Fold]

I wonder what will happen when the world starts moving from a oil based economy causing the money heading to the Middle East to dry up.

Then the west will likely have less interest in the area and be less involved there while making up some moral reason to leave a smaller military force there, with the real reason being to keep a military presence in a strategically, geographically valuable area.

Middle eastern areas that successfully manage to reinvest money to turn away from oil reliance will thrive and while others will struggle and will probably work for nothing but survival.

 

[h4rm0ny]

I doubt it, so looked to Indonesia.

Granted, but that is one province in Indonesia where they have Sharia law. In the rest of the country homosexuality is legal. I'll remind you that even in the UK it wasn't until 1958 that serious public campaigning for same-sex relationships to be legalised began. And it wasn't until 1961 that gay sex was actually legaised and then only if you were over 21 and it was in private and if you weren't in the Navy or armed forces. My point is that Islam cannot be treated as some indivisible cultural monolith. Compare Indonesia with Saudi Arabia and it will seem as progressive as you like. And as mentioned - the Kurds are very progressive in many ways. Check out the Kurdish YPJ.

None of it is perfect, but there's plenty that shows Islam can and does change.

I agree, but let's not pretend that there isn't a significant and serious problem in Muslim communities. Sorry if that offends anyone, but it's time to wake up now and see the bigger picture.

Oh, I don't pretend there aren't serious problems. I think many muslims know it too. My point is that increasing the division does more harm than good. The path forward is for Islam to become more moderate of muslim's own choice. Not to be defeated in a battle of arms between the West and all two billion muslims! And I believe that can happen because ultimately, most people of any group just want to live their lives and be safe. War is a terrible way to achieve either of those which most muslims (other than from Saudi Arabia) seem to know.

Similarly with the Kurdish YPJ, recall how one of the great shifts in sexual equality in Britain was WWII where British women had to leave the home and work hard in factories because Britain was fighting a desperate war. Effort and heroism was called for by all, not just men. The Kurds have been fighting for survival for a while now - just the same, gender roles have become less defined with women soldiers and more. History and our environment shape our cultures more, I believe, than belief in this god or that. Evolution - even the cultural kind - isn't open to negotiation.

 

[Housey]

No, you just post a lot of nonsense (including in this thread) - like earlier in the thread when you declared a picture from twitter 'fake' when it very likely wasn't. Then in the post you quote there I've questioned another of your dubious additions to the thread - a 'bomb' at the station... of course there wasn't one.

Yea, I got my man of honour based on all the nonsense I speak and the unhelpful nature of my posts and actions on and off the forum over the years. You need to focus on your own posting/contributing style and less on mine I suggest. If you'd like to discuss this over a coffee let me know, my office is in the city, I'll buy the coffee....

 

[Vonhelmet]

The word Islam means 'submission' in Arabic. I think they want everyone else to submit to them.

No, they want everyone to submit to their God. It's a subtle but important difference, though in practise you would likely end up having to do both.

 

[merlin]

Worth a listen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_ToLv3rt1M&t

Bang on the money for me.

 

[Vonhelmet]

who here believes that the West and Islam will ever get along ?

They already do. There's just a very small but active minority that don't.

 

[Housey]

Bang on the money for me.

PR and media management is the most forward thinking aspect of this group and indicative of those behind it.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Well that's Just mentally challenged, they do realise that one of the country's in the g8 have the ability to wipe the Middle East out, our weapon systems are at least 6 generations ahead.

I wonder what will happen when the world starts moving from a oil based economy causing the money heading to the Middle East to dry up.

it's why you will find most muslim funerals are done within 24 hours of death. and why they were so furious when bin laden's body was thrown into the sea / ocean.

effectively on judgement day all non believers will be cast into hell and they will inherit the earth both living and dead.

ISIS believe they have been sent here to cause judgement day. that is why they have no qualms about dying as they believe they will rise again as they are true believers.

https://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-5.htm

read that for direct quotes, etc from their book.

 

[Greebo]

so we just ignoring the claim for the bomb by ISIS stating exactly why they did it then and we all suddenly become experts on Islamic Terrorists?

“With Allah’s grace and support, a soldier of Khilafah managed to place explosive devices in the midst of the gatherings of the Crusaders in the British city of Manchester, in revenge for Allah’s religion, in an endeavor to terrorize the mushirkin and in response to their transgressions against the lands of the Muslims,” the statement said. “The explosive devices were detonated in the shameless concert arena, resulting in 30 Crusaders being killed and 70 others being wounded. And what comes next will be more severe on the worshipers of the Cross and their allies, by Allah’s permission. And all praises is due to Allah, Lord of the creation.”

They care claiming its cause of what we do in the Middle East. Might be a cover for their general hatred of us but it might be true?

 

[StriderX]

When will it be acceptable to speak of the political ramifications of this? Tis a bit odd that people can discuss religion but not politics.

 

[dowie]

Yea, I got my man of honour based on all the nonsense I speak and the unhelpful nature of my posts and actions on and off the forum over the years. You need to focus on your own posting/contributing style and less on mine I suggest. If you'd like to discuss this over a coffee let me know, my office is in the city, I'll buy the coffee....

you quoted my post questioning why someone thought a picture from an attack is fake - where I highlighted that it would be an idea to provide some reason/source... with the comment "because it is fake"... it seems it wasn't fake at all and was sadly one of the earlier photos of this horrific attack. Just stating something is fake with no reason adds nothing and is especially unhelpful when the statement was wrong anyway.

then you posted some nonsense about a bomb at the railway station - again unsubstantiated... and it turned out there wasn't a bomb at all

yes I will call out stuff like that as nonsense, I gave clear reasons for doing so - your then deleted reply simply turned into an ad hominem attack... perhaps your posting contributions have got downhill a bit since earning that prestigious award

point was that people posting unsubstantiated stuff when attacks like this unfold aren't adding anything