Is Islam compatible with atheism/lack of belief ?

[Rroff]

^^ The points you make actually get really complex when it comes to the next few bits of Genesis especially when it comes to the use of day and also interestingly darkness and night which also seem to have some kind of dual meaning especially the way darkness is used (or it might have been night I can't remember now).

The actual message IMO is pretty clear though - sure there are potentially extra layers of meaning but the main theme is still the same.

 

[Angilion]

That transcript from Red Dwarf reminds me of the Adulterer's Bible. Missing out the word "not" is quite a common mistake that can quite often slip past proof-reading because the sentence will still make perfect sense. Unfortunately for some printers in the past, the "not" they missed out and didn't catch on proof-reading was the one in the command "Thou shalt not commit adultery", so their printing of the Bible had the command "Thou shalt commit adultery". Oops!

It wasn't considered funny at the time. Not by the authorities, anyway. I bet a lot of people thought it was funny, but not officially.

Found it...the Wicked Bible, 1631. The printers were fined £300 (big money in 1631) and shut down.

 

[Angilion]

^^ The points you make actually get really complex when it comes to the next few bits of Genesis especially when it comes to the use of day and also interestingly darkness and night which also seem to have some kind of dual meaning especially the way darkness is used (or it might have been night I can't remember now).

The actual message IMO is pretty clear though - sure there are potentially extra layers of meaning but the main theme is still the same.

That's not good enough in religion, since some believers will kill other believers over very small differences that are meaninglessly trivial to outsiders. Which end of a boiled egg should be cracked first? The main theme is that boiled eggs can be eaten and the shell has to be removed first, but the big end first or the little end first? KILL THE HERETIC!

 

[Rroff]

That's not good enough in religion, since some believers will kill other believers over very small differences that are meaninglessly trivial to outsiders. Which end of a boiled egg should be cracked first? The main theme is that boiled eggs can be eaten and the shell has to be removed first, but the big end first or the little end first? KILL THE HERETIC!

Well its kind of plain that which end doesn't matter or it would have been stated more specifically. What you've posted highlights the utter stupidity of most religions/denominations out there when it comes to interpretation though.

 

[B&W]

That's not good enough in religion, since some believers will kill other believers over very small differences that are meaninglessly trivial to outsiders. Which end of a boiled egg should be cracked first? The main theme is that boiled eggs can be eaten and the shell has to be removed first, but the big end first or the little end first? KILL THE HERETIC!

Bit of an over exaggeration there, we have plenty of religious people in this country who have more then two brain cells..

Education helps a lot.

Quite disturbing that atheists believe they are actually more intelligent then theists. Both are faith based positions.

 

[dowie]

Quite disturbing that atheists believe they are actually more intelligent then theists. Both are faith based positions.

well they have higher IQs (on average) - obviously IQ isn't necessarily the same as 'intelligence'

however your second statement is incorrect - religion requires blind faith, atheism is a position that rejects that - it is the lack of faith

 

[Paul_cz]

Quite disturbing that atheists believe they are actually more intelligent then theists. Both are faith based positions.

This is complete BS. Atheists simply do not believe in things for which there is no reason to believe, but are open to having their mind changed should such reason, proof, evidence present itself.

 

[jpod]

Bit of an over exaggeration there, we have plenty of religious people in this country who have more then two brain cells..

Education helps a lot.

Quite disturbing that atheists believe they are actually more intelligent then theists. Both are faith based positions.

Brain cells yes but that does not mean that any religion is the truth. Any individual of faith carrying out their clever day job has the cognitive dissonance of on the one hand being exposed to what we now know about the universe and the fruits of science (laptop, mobile phone, medicine, tinternet, DNA, evolution) and then worshiping a supernatural ultralord at the weekend. Not to mention witnessing the dismal suffering around the world and on our shores that such a belief causes to this day; whilst carrying on as though it could not possibly be their responsibility.

Education does help a lot but it is not comprehensively available to females in some religious countries and religious groups act to supplant a genuine science education home and away.

Agnostic or atheist is not a faith-based position, it is the default position and to confuse this is to make a fundamental school-boy error. You are forgiven and perhaps you will appreciate that many people of faith are not sophisticated theologians.

Finally, it is helpful to ask why would god or gods care? Why would a supernatural mega being presumably listening to all our prayers care if you open the sharp end of your egg, use yeast, have a foreskin, eat during the day, eat beef, pig, show the top of your head; and if you have belief you have by definition discounted every other religion (like Zeus, Jupiter....) but it is highly likely you are the religion of your parents and you region. The faith life choice is most often determined for you and it is not made at the age of reason. It is not based on a rational assessment of all the available religions. It is obviously man made. Significantly the religious are often not happy and it is reassuring that like other human mammals they regularly commit unethical deeds some of which are spectacularly catastrophic.

 

[hornetstinger]

Bit of an over exaggeration there, we have plenty of religious people in this country who have more then two brain cells..

Education helps a lot.

Quite disturbing that atheists believe they are actually more intelligent then theists. Both are faith based positions.

You'll find as level of education increase, religious belief drops. Science has shown that. With charts. Something that religious belief cannot do- it can't back yours, or any of the other religious dogmas statements up.

The quran and bible can be used to show the errors. A all knowing, superemly intelligent being would not make errors.

Athiesm is not faith based.

 

[Angilion]

Bit of an over exaggeration there, we have plenty of religious people in this country who have more then two brain cells..

Education helps a lot.

You seem to have overlooked the word "some" in my text. It's an important word.

Quite disturbing that atheists believe they are actually more intelligent then theists.

Then again, maybe you simply don't understand the concept of "some", since you reply with a sweeping generalisation including all people who don't believe in gods.

I used the word "some" because not all theists hold the same views. You criticised me as if I had not done so. You then replied doing exactly what you'd criticised me for (which I had not done). Do you understand what's wrong with that?

Both are faith based positions.

That's a pretty silly position to take. Lack of faith is not faith. That's pretty much the whole of it - not having faith. To say that not having faith is a faith based position really doesn't make any sense. I've noticed that quite a few theists do that. Perhaps it's because they genuinely can't understand not having religious faith and so assume that everyone must have religious faith, even those who say they don't, and thus believe atheism is another religion since they understand the concept of different religions.

But that's not how it is. It is possible to not have faith in any religion, to not believe in any gods. You might not understand that position, but I assure you it does exist.

Some atheists could be considered to have faith in that they believe in the non-existence of gods despite the fact that it can't be proven for certain. But not all atheists believe in the non-existence of gods.

Also, believing in the non-existence of gods is like believing in the non-existence of giant fire-breathing dragons ridden by wizards. There's no evidence of those things existing either, but maybe they do exist somewhere. Do you regard believing in the non-existence of giant fire-breathing dragons ridden by wizards as a faith based position? What about The Force, Jedis and Sith? Hogwarts? Thor? Spiderman? Etc, etc.

 

[Angilion]

As an aside, I think I've found a religion that's not open to interpretation - the religion followed by Conan the Barbarian. His god, Crom, gives a person life and will. That's it, end of story. No rules to follow. No judgements made. No afterlife. He doesn't care about you. He doesn't need you.

 

[Paul_cz]

Anyway, seems I am getting my answer every other day these days. Gonna do what I can to prevent any kind of islamic importation into my country.

 

[Destination]

As an aside, I think I've found a religion that's not open to interpretation - the religion followed by Conan the Barbarian. His god, Crom, gives a person life and will. That's it, end of story. No rules to follow. No judgements made. No afterlife. He doesn't care about you. He doesn't need you.

Crom is the big bang then Sounds about right.

 

[McstylisT]

Anyway, seems I am getting my answer every other day these days. Gonna do what I can to prevent any kind of islamic importation into my country.

Will be with you on that one.

 

[Angilion]

Crom is the big bang then Sounds about right.

Howard did a good job of creating a religion to fit the culture he created. The Cimmerians would, of course, create a religion to "explain" life and that one fits their culture perfectly. His mind-boggling racism is the main thing that sticks in my mind about him, but he could write and he could invent countries and societies.

 

[MrMarvelous]

Is Islam compatible with atheism/lack of belief ?

No, and it never will be.

 

[The Running Man]

I think the issue is more that Islam is not compatible with rationalism.

Indeed most religions are not entirely however it's clear that in this modern day setting Islam is that incompatible it turns it's people to force rather than discourse.

 

[Surfer]

I wonder if we can have a poll? Would that be too much?

 

[SPG]

Are people actually debating if a thousand year old book is worth living your life by in the 21st century?

Afraid So, both Christian and Muslim alike.

Not sure where the Indian god (s) sit in this mix though.

 

[SPG]

You'll find as level of education increase, religious belief drops. Science has shown that. With charts. Something that religious belief cannot do- it can't back yours, or any of the other religious dogmas statements up.



The quran and bible can be used to show the errors. A all knowing, superemly intelligent being would not make errors.

Athiesm is not faith based.

Correct I never make a mistake.