Barcelona Incident

I do disagree guys, the ones saying 'your more likely to be struck by lightning' etc are just saying that as terrible as these events are, being so widely reported on the media does overblow the actual danger you personally are in, which determines your response. It's not denying there is a threat or problem, just about trying to keep it in perspective and coming up with a workable solution to mitigate the attacks. But it most certainly is a problem.

As for being encouraged to stick your head in the sand, I keep asking, what do you expect individuals to do? Because, honestly, it worryingly sounds to me that you want vigilante groups going around rounding up Muslims in some form or another

And the argument over its "Islam" or not is a distraction to me and is just used the demonise 'the enemy'. It's obvious it's a subset of the religion that's the problem, we have to tackle that subset and the people who propogate it for their own aims, religious or not, not the wider religion of Islam, who the majority live normal (to them, different to us) and peaceful lives.
 
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Freakbro said:
Because, honestly, it worryingly sounds to me that you want vigilante groups going around rounding up Muslims in some form or another
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I think the people who want something overtly done are trying to avoid this. Anyone with an understanding of group dynamics knows how provocative the situation is, and telling everyone to just deal with it is throwing fuel on the fire and will, sooner or later, lead exactly to vigilante gangs.
 
Whilst I understand the desire to point fingers and demand some sort of (albeit idiotic) response on one group of people of particular faith (I.e. Islam in this case) ask yourself what good that would actually do? Gone are the days when border controls or will do any good here and the reaction we are starting to take is the goal of the attackers. They want to west to turn on the Muslim community and use that as further fuel for them to support radicals. This is more likely than not the death throws of a soon to be extinct terrorist group in the middle east (ISIS).
 
The latest on Sky News is that a house explosion in Spain on Wednesday was linked to todays attack, presumably bomb making gone wrong.
 
Skunkworks said:
I think the people who want something overtly done are trying to avoid this. Anyone with an understanding of group dynamics knows how provocative the situation is, and telling everyone to just deal with it is throwing fuel on the fire and will, sooner or later, lead exactly to vigilante gangs.
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And we don't want that to happen, as this now potentially innocent guy, who has already had his heritage, genetics and birthright legitimacy called into question because "that's the guy!" Would be hung from a tree by now.

It reminds me of the time the people took it upon themselves to oust the rumoured paedophile that lived on the estate and attacked their house, when it turned out they were a paediatrician. Vigilantism is not the answer, no matter how much we feel we need to do something on an individual basis.

I don't think anyone is saying 'deal with it, and we are going to do nothing and ignore it' they are saying we have to deal with it while the people who are tasked with the problem, security services, politicians etc, tackle it.

And they are doing, the problem is for every 10 they stop it only takes the 1 to get through. And this is virtually impossible to completely stop, so when it unfortunately does get through, that's not an indication we are doing nothing
 
It's worth noting that Terrorist attacks in Europe have steadily declined, and they're now at their lowest point in years.

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(Source).

Meanwhile, Russia still holds the record for the most number of terrorist attacks and the highest rate of casualties. Vladimir Putin has presided over the deaths of 3,419 Islamic terror victims in the past 17 years. That's more than the whole of Western Europe combined.
 
dowie said:
not necessarily - they're not direct equivalents anyway but sufficient for a comparison - Farage isn't 'far right' for example. But if you like then yes there are examples of rightwing politics that you can associate - anti foreign immigration etc.. the far right could be said to fall under a subset of this just as Islamism can fall under a subset of Islam (this is why I included Farage as an example, he's merely right wing rather than far right and criticism of him as being to blame for a far right attack is like criticism of an ordinary muslim cleric for an Islamist attack). On the other hand 'right wing' as in a desire for a small state/low taxation has nothing to do with the far right, their politics are not a subset or an extreme version of that. It kind of depends on the scope of 'right wing' as to whether the comparison works.
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Agreed, one of the reasons I dislike the terms "right" and "left" When used in the context they are so often used. in this instance were obviously discussing the more nationalist side of "right", rather than the economic side.
 
omnomnom said:
..this thread.

RIP to the victims. Just heartbreaking to think people are just trying to get on with their day / enjoy a holiday and they arent coming home.
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I'm sure not the way they would want it but it actually happened at just the "right" time for many Barcelonans. There's a big anti-tourism sentiment occurring there at the moment and I'm sure this will help reduce tourism more than any of their attempts. :/

https://www.google.ca/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/business-40960443
 
robgmun said:
We can't, anything the general public can do to help stop it are branded "Racist" and "Islamophobic" and can (and frequently are) reported to the police. We can barely even say anything these days without repercussions. See that MP that was fired by Corbyn over saying undisputed FACTS!

So we're left with an impotant government that rather rwing their hands rather than calling a spade a spade.

Guess what... this will come across as profiling, but if we stop anyone with a middle-eastern name being able to hire a van across Europe, these attacks will slow down significantly. But no one has the balls to do something so radical
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That wouldn't have helped the people outside Finsbury park mosque would it? Or the people in Charlottesville (admittedly that was a car).

Perhaps we should ban the hire of vans to anyone full stop?

Not that that would help, cars and stolen HGV tractors have also been used. Even if you could stop that people would just move on to the next method.

We could do a lot of things, but the issue is, is it reasonable and proportionate and will it actually make a difference? Your suggestion is pretty much none of those.

I'm also intrigued to know what you consider the general public could do, that are reported to the police.
 
Gigabit said:
The simple fact is that these terrorist groups have sprung up because we got involved in the Middle East and we should have just left well alone.
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These groups didn't spring up, they were always there, the West just removed the zookeepers. That coupled with the ever increasing overlap between Islam and the West and you get what we have today.

I do agree that the ME should be left alone. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and all that.
 
Skunkworks said:
These groups didn't spring up, they were always there, the West just removed the zookeepers. That coupled with the ever increasing overlap between Islam and the West and you get what we have today.

I do agree that the ME should be left alone. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and all that.
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You're quite right and I put that very badly.

Sudam was horrible but I'm not convinced he was worse than ISIS. My theory is in time Iraq would have become a democracy anyway.
 
ultralaser said:
Whilst I understand the desire to point fingers and demand some sort of (albeit idiotic) response on one group of people of particular faith (I.e. Islam in this case) ask yourself what good that would actually do? Gone are the days when border controls or will do any good here and the reaction we are starting to take is the goal of the attackers. They want to west to turn on the Muslim community and use that as further fuel for them to support radicals. This is more likely than not the death throws of a soon to be extinct terrorist group in the middle east (ISIS).
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Put yourself in the mindset of Daesh and the world looks like this: You are surrounded by corrupt, Western infidels whom you despise and consider the great evil of your time. And all your people (muslims) are just sleepwalking along and tolerating this. So you need to wake them up. Which you do by lashing out at the infidels to create the war that will galvanise your people to join you in your holy struggle. Terrorist attacks by Daesh are attempts to start the war that will make other muslims think like they do when the response catches them as collateral damage. There's nothing that solidifies a group identity like knowing a hostile outside force doesn't distinguish between you.
 
Evangelion said:
Meanwhile, Russia still holds the record for the most number of terrorist attacks and the highest rate of casualties. Vladimir Putin has presided over the deaths of 3,419 Islamic terror victims in the past 17 years. That's more than the whole of Western Europe combined.
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wait how is it the "highest rate of casualties" when in 17 years they have lost less than the Americans lost in a day?
 
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