Guy jailed for writing kill all muslims

[Angilion]

I take it English is not your natural language because you clearly are not understanding the most basic of the discussion and fabricating lies.

Now you're being very silly. Anyone who can read English can see that I am quite competent with it. My explanations of exactly how you are contradicting yourself by using three completely different definitions of "race" are clear.

At the end of the day you either believe in the 21st century definition of race in regards to humans, or the 18th century definition.

Since you claim to believe in three completely different definitions at the same time and are arbitrarily claiming that the one you've made up is one that all scientists use despite the fact that few if any of them do and you only sometimes use it yourself and even then you don't use it in a way consistent with itself, your claim above makes no sense.

If you believe in the latter then we have no common grounds for discussion. Personally, I subscribe to what the science says and thus use the current acedmic.and legal definition of racism, and not something from the 1750s when black people were thought of as a different race and thus could be kept as slaves.

I made my position very clear, as I have done before. It's right there in the post you're replying to. Perhaps you should read a post before replying to it.

Race doesn't exist. There is no truly valid definition of it because it doesn't exist. Different people make up definitions for it. If you had made up one definition and stuck to it, you would at least be internally consistent. But you're swapping between 3 completely different definitions (species, social/cultural and the traditional inaccurate descriptions of skin colour), so you're not consistent even with yourself.

 

[Participant]

I thought I was quite clear as to what my motivation was in this fictional example

'because of that belief'?

It was extremely clear, he just didn't read it properly.

Islamophobia is a harmful word constructed by those that would prefer to silence valid criticism of Islam's moral values, values entirely at odds with the moral values of western society, which focus around the basic principle of 'just be a decent person'.

 

[Vonhelmet]

Islamophobia is a harmful word constructed by those that would prefer to silence valid criticism of Islam's moral values, values entirely at odds with the moral values of western society, which focus around the basic principle of 'just be a decent person'.

The amusing thing is that your comment can be read either way, as though the moral values of either Islam or of western society focuses around being a decent person. Given that the idea of what constitutes a decent person varies, and the quality of both western and Islamic people varies, I'd say the ambiguity is not out of place.

 

[platinum87]

At the end of the day you either believe in the 21st century definition of race in regards to humans, or the 18th century definition.

I think you are getting mixed up with race and species.

 

[enkoda]

@D.P.

You still haven't addressed my points:

Why do I deserve to be classed as a racist and face imprisonment for simply disliking Islam, as per the definition of Islamophobia?

Why is it acceptable for a religious book (Quran/Bible, either or both) that contains numerous chapters condoning and commanding the execution of homosexuals to be exempt from inciting hate crime?

 

[Orionaut]

You know, A Londoner, say, transported from the early 1940's would look upon modern Britain with utter disbelief...:/

 

[Narj]

Islamophobia is a harmful word constructed by those that would prefer to silence valid criticism of Islam's moral values, values entirely at odds with the moral values of western society, which focus around the basic principle of 'just be a decent person'.

I always thought that having a fear of something that's potentially harmful to you was perfectly natural. I'd certainly have a phobia of fundamentalist Islamic values if I were gay or female. Unfortunately it seems that makes you a bigot.

 

[nitram100]

Victimless crime. Bit ridiculous really. Yet you can walk the streets with a sign saying you want to cut someones head off, this country is utter ******** to be honest.

 

[Mr Badger]

Victimless crime. Bit ridiculous really. Yet you can walk the streets with a sign saying you want to cut someones head off, this country is utter ******** to be honest.

Have you actually tried this? If not, give it a go and report back how you get on.

 

[IronWarrior]

Have you actually tried this? If not, give it a go and report back how you get on.

That depends on the colour of his skin and what religion (or cult of death) he belongs too.

 

[Angilion]

I think you are getting mixed up with race and species.

It's worse than that. They're using 4 different definitions on an ad hoc basis for some unknown reason.

First species and then society and culture:

Not this idiocy again.

Every human, whatever their ethnic back ground, skin color, place of birth, are all part of the same race. The human race

Racism refers to social and cultural differences because there no biologically different races. Unless you think racism should only apply to actions against other animals.

So they contradict their first definition (that all humans are one race) with their second definition (that people with social and cultural differences are different races).

Then they contradict their second definition by denying that social and cultural differences are different races, e.g. if they believed their own second definition they would regard rich people and poor people (a huge social difference) as different races but they don't. Just one example of many, since there are so many social and cultural differences.

Then they contradicted their previous two definitions by citing ideology as the definition of race before promptly contradicting themself again by saying that all humans are the same race and then again by saying that different humans are different races but the definition is "ethno-cultural groups" rather than ideology.

The problem is idiots that do not understand that Islamophobia is racism.


Humans are all part of the same race. that is a hard biological fact. The differences you see between ethnic groups are not differences in biological race. These are largely cultural differences. Discrimination against different ethno-cultrural groups is racisms.

And then contradicted their third definition by denying that other ideologies are races (religious, social and political, just like Islam).

Then they switched to a 4th definition that contradicts the other three, moving on to the traditional definition of "race" by an inaccurate description of how much suntan a person has.

Your other examples simply don't apply because they are not uniform. IF for example every white person was liberal, then that is a cultural trait that could be used as grounds for discrimination. But that isn't a shared common trait of white people so cannot be used as a racial prejudice.

The other examples referred to were differet ideologies and cultural and social differences, i.e. two of the previous definitions of "race" they had been using.

So 4 different definitions, all of which contradict each other and none of which they actually think are true. I don't know why they're doing that, but my guess is that they have their own ideas about what race is and they're trying to rationalise them.

 

[Vonhelmet]

That depends on the colour of his skin and what religion (or cult of death) he belongs too.

I'd be prepared to bet quite a lot of money that it wouldn't end well regardless of your religion and skin colour, be that because someone called the law on you, or just took the law into their own hands.

 

[Raz]

I'd be prepared to bet quite a lot of money that it wouldn't end well regardless of your religion and skin colour, be that because someone called the law on you, or just took the law into their own hands.

Don't spoil it for him, people need erroneous information on which to base their beliefs and a basis for [always] being a victim.

 

[Raz]

It was extremely clear, he just didn't read it properly.

Islamophobia is a harmful word constructed by those that would prefer to silence valid criticism of Islam's moral values, values entirely at odds with the moral values of western society, which focus around the basic principle of 'just be a decent person'.

Think morality goes beyond 'just be a decent person' because that's somewhat subjective but on your main point, I guess the term Islamophobia conflates two separate issues which is why some people object to its use. The first is to describe what is essentially hate crime against Muslims which is possibly due to a fear of what Muslims are/have done. The ones who carry out these crimes tend not to know much about Islam or Muslims, except what is provided by generally right-leaning media. The second, which I think is perfectly valid, is to question Islam as a religion, whether it's to do with the Quran, certain beliefs or the Prophet. For this, it doesn't matter if a person is an academic, a researcher or whatever - everyone should be allowed to question aspects of Islam without being labelled an 'Islamophobe' (although attacking through ignorance isn't the right way to go about things).

 

[enkoda]

Have you actually tried this? If not, give it a go and report back how you get on.

I'd be prepared to bet quite a lot of money that it wouldn't end well regardless of your religion and skin colour, be that because someone called the law on you, or just took the law into their own hands.

I'm pretty sure these images are from a march organised by Anjem Choudary:

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/pictures/muslim-protests-in-the-uk/1027488/

Almost certainly this protest:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...tons-Muslim-extremists-defy-public-anger.html

No arrests I believe, showing you can walk the streets with a sign saying cut someone's head off and get away with it.

 

[Mr Badger]

I'm pretty sure these images are from a march organised by Anjem Choudary:

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/pictures/muslim-protests-in-the-uk/1027488/

Almost certainly this protest:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...tons-Muslim-extremists-defy-public-anger.html

No arrests I believe, showing you can walk the streets with a sign saying cut someone's head off and get away with it.

Your point being that this must be a different Anjem Choudary that is immune from prosecution, and obviously not the same one that is currently serving a five and a half year long prison stretch (plus a 15 year notification order) for his extremist rantings?

Anyway, if you think it's the right thing to do have the courage of your conviction and get out there with your head chopping placard. You know that the forum will be behind you - some of us further than others.

 

[robgmun]

Islamophobia is a harmful word constructed by those that would prefer to silence valid criticism of Islam's moral values, values entirely at odds with the moral values of western society, which focus around the basic principle of 'just be a decent person'.

It's time the word "Islamophobia" is thrown in the bin, i can't believe the PM was stupid enough to use it herself a while back. You can't be called phobic for criticising an idea, thankfully it does seemed to be a word that been used less in the last year or so.

 

[Vonhelmet]

I'm pretty sure these images are from a march organised by Anjem Choudary:

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/pictures/muslim-protests-in-the-uk/1027488/

Almost certainly this protest:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...tons-Muslim-extremists-defy-public-anger.html

No arrests I believe, showing you can walk the streets with a sign saying cut someone's head off and get away with it.

Oh, ok, I was thinking of doing it solo, in which case you'd struggle, but clearly doing it in a group is the way to go...

 

[enkoda]

Victimless crime. Bit ridiculous really. Yet you can walk the streets with a sign saying you want to cut someones head off, this country is utter ******** to be honest.

Have you actually tried this? If not, give it a go and report back how you get on.

I'd be prepared to bet quite a lot of money that it wouldn't end well regardless of your religion and skin colour, be that because someone called the law on you, or just took the law into their own hands.

Have I misinterpreted something here? I was just highlighting the point that it is possible to walk the streets with such a sign - as far as I'm aware this sign waver wasn't assaulted or arrested. The implication from both of you was that you will face repercussions for waving such a sign in public, which is evidently not the case here.

Your point being that this must be a different Anjem Choudary that is immune from prosecution, and obviously not the same one that is currently serving a five and a half year long prison stretch (plus a 15 year notification order) for his extremist rantings?

Anyway, if you think it's the right thing to do have the courage of your conviction and get out there with your head chopping placard. You know that the forum will be behind you - some of us further than others.

You're missing the point: Choudary wasn't the one waving that particular sign and certainly wasn't convicted of any offence with regard to that particular sign (unless you can show I'm wrong, in which case I'll admit my mistake). The point being made was that a man walked around with a sign saying "Behead those who insult Islam" (i.e. "cut people's heads off") and got away with it, despite numerous police officers stood right in front of him.

I'm at a loss how you've managed to conclude that I'm supporting their actions...

 

[VincentHanna]

Funny, in the thread about Charlottesville people were saying you should be free to say literally whatever you want Inc if you are a Nazi/KKK member

Now you want people locked up for signs?