Fracking banned immediately in Scotland

KillBoY_UK · 4 Oct 2017 at 11:31

agaisnt fracking but likes north sea oil drilling :confused:

Tefal · 4 Oct 2017 at 11:32

KillBoY_UK said:
agaisnt fracking but likes north sea oil drilling

no one gets thier drinking water from under the north sea?

north sea drilling platforms aren't pumping positions chemicals down there and then leaving them and hoping they never spread over time

Tefal · 4 Oct 2017 at 11:33

pooley said:
still laugh to think we still still use oil as fuel in this day and age!!

it's a near perfect energy source. even after its gone we will likley be synthesizing it for use in vehicles

Tefal · 4 Oct 2017 at 11:35

Cromulent said:
I wish they would allow fracking and tax it properly and put the money to good use (for example the NHS or the Police). Banning things just means the Scottish government lose out on a potential revenue stream which will mean that public services must suffer as a result.

or the Scottish government have just put a valuable resource in the bank for future when it may be much more valuable

KillBoY_UK · 4 Oct 2017 at 12:06

Tefal said:
no one gets thier drinking water from under the north sea?

north sea drilling platforms aren't pumping positions chemicals down there and then leaving them and hoping they never spread over time

They still expect gas heat their homes and oil to power their cars
(shall we talk about the air pollution and unnecessary journeys), create plastics for the products they buy at the cheapest possible prices etc

Its the same sort of people who are against wind farms in people back yards as there a eye sore when looking out from there kitchen windows.

chrismscotland · 4 Oct 2017 at 12:18

The biggest issue up here as always been that the areas which are ripe for fracking are in the most populated areas of the Central Belt which makes it more difficult, we might as well hang onto it until its worth more I suppose.
IN those areas though which are for example former Open Cast Mines I don't see what the harm would be.

Tefal · 4 Oct 2017 at 13:53

KillBoY_UK said:
They still expect gas heat their homes and oil to power their cars
(shall we talk about the air pollution and unnecessary journeys), create plastics for the products they buy at the cheapest possible prices etc

Its the same sort of people who are against wind farms in people back yards as there a eye sore when looking out from there kitchen windows.

so why not use everyone else's first?

why use the stuff in your own back yard when there's plenty available. save it for when you need it

bJN · 4 Oct 2017 at 14:21

Tefal said:
north sea drilling platforms aren't pumping positions chemicals down there and then leaving them and hoping they never spread over time

Long story short, that's exactly what they're doing to a certain extent, have been for decades and will continue to do so for decades.

Fracking sites in the UK are perfectly fine as they're (as you'd expect) heavily regulated. They look like nothing more than your standard building site when they first start up, and are literally a building when the well is established. A load of fuss over nothing from environment-hugging know-it-alls that see no issue with using gas for their homes and oil for their cars. *yawn*

D.P. · 4 Oct 2017 at 14:28

Tefal said:
it's a near perfect energy source. even after its gone we will likley be synthesizing it for use in vehicles

while oil is a great energy source we certainly won't be using synthesized oil for vehicles. Electric will take over within a decade or 2. Some countries have already set out laws that combustion engines will be illegal from a certain date in the future.

Dis86 · 4 Oct 2017 at 15:14

D.P. said:
while oil is a great energy source we certainly won't be using synthesized oil for vehicles. Electric will take over within a decade or 2. Some countries have already set out laws that combustion engines will be illegal from a certain date in the future.

Synthetic lubricants...

Vonhelmet · 4 Oct 2017 at 15:22

Dis86 said:
Synthetic lubricants...

The quantity of lubricants used in a car is insignificant compared to the quantity of fuel, so I dare say it's obvious which one tefal was referring to, not least given he was referring to it as an "energy source".

platypus · 4 Oct 2017 at 15:57

Amp34 said:
It will be interesting to see their justification for banning it. Presumably it’s because of public opinion and a move towards renewables and away from oil and gas rather than more local environmental “issues”.

If it’s the latter be ready for an appeal in 3, 2, 1.

My god, it says it right there in the first paragraph in the link provided by the op.

The Scottish government has announced an immediate ban on fracking, following overwhelming public opposition to the controversial process.

D.P. · 4 Oct 2017 at 15:59

Dis86 said:
Synthetic lubricants...

Lubricants probably. Although even there, one of the great things about electric cars is no need for oil changes as with a combustion engine.

something daft already!! · 4 Oct 2017 at 15:59

I have mis-read the title so many times now that I had to post about it. I was beginning to wonder how they will make babies.

Amp34 · 4 Oct 2017 at 16:05

platypus said:
My god, it says it right there in the first paragraph in the link provided by the op.

So their reason is entirely public opinion, or is that a commentary on the replies they got?

The quote you provided doesn’t make that very clear...

Edit: and from another article -

Mr Wheelhouse said the consultation came back with 'overwhelming' opposition to fracking, with 99% of respondents supporting a ban. He said ministers had taken a careful and evidence-based approach to considering the case for fracking, but said their conclusion was that the government 'will not support the development of unconventional oil and gas'.

https://www.energy-pedia.com/news/united-kingdom/scottish-government-backs-ban-on-fracking-171808

So have they done it because they have taken a “careful and evidence based approach”, or just because of the “overwhelming opposition”, which you’d expect in a controversial process. Environmental groups have templates set up for this sort of thing.

Quartz · 4 Oct 2017 at 16:07

nkata said:
Yet they have no issue with drilling lots of holes offshore in the North Sea.

Those don't pollute the local fresh water supply. Unlike fracking.

Amp34 · 4 Oct 2017 at 16:14

Tefal said:
no one gets thier drinking water from under the north sea?

north sea drilling platforms aren't pumping positions chemicals down there and then leaving them and hoping they never spread over time

Let’s hazard a guess here that you have no idea about the oil industry or what it involves?

North Sea drilling rigs will be pumping the same “chemicals” down as any onshore fracks. All the chemicals in onshore fracking have to be authorized by the EA/Government prior to use and have to be non toxic.

And the drinking aquifers are thousands of feet above where the fracks would be going, with fracking no more likely to damage them than standard drilling.

Your post is a prime example of the issue with fracking in the UK. A fundamental misunderstanding of it, what it involves and the regulations in place in the UK.

Tefal said:
so why not use everyone else's first?

why use the stuff in your own back yard when there's plenty available. save it for when you need it

Which would you prefer.

1. Gas piped from Russia. This is where a significant amount of European gas comes from currently, although not so much UK gas. The UK is connected to the eurpoean system however and prices can be affected by European supply and demand. Let’s hope Russia don’t decide to turn the taps off at any point.

2. We liquify Natural Gas (LNG), or more precisely Qatar and other middle eastern states do, and transport it to the UK on large refrigerated ships. The process is expensive and energy intensive in comparison to piping and locally producing it. I assume you’re happy with increased energy bills?

Those are basically the only two options (other than perhaps LNG from the US, which is also expensive). Alternatively the Uk can continue producing its own hydrocarbons which will be cheaper, more secure and not beholden to less stable nations.

TBH this all depends on whether fracking for unconventionals actually works in the UK (and Europe). There are significant variations in geology and stress regime in Europe to the US and as such is more a play concept than anything else in the UK. So far in Europe it’s been tried in multiple locations and never been economically/geologically successful.

Tefal · 4 Oct 2017 at 23:06

Amp34 said:
Let’s hazard a guess here that you have no idea about the oil industry or what it involves?

North Sea drilling rigs will be pumping the same “chemicals” down as any onshore fracks. All the chemicals in onshore fracking have to be authorized by the EA/Government prior to use and have to be non toxic.

And the drinking aquifers are thousands of feet above where the fracks would be going, with fracking no more likely to damage them than standard drilling.

Your post is a prime example of the issue with fracking in the UK. A fundamental misunderstanding of it, what it involves and the regulations in place in the UK.

Which would you prefer.

1. Gas piped from Russia. This is where a significant amount of European gas comes from currently, although not so much UK gas. The UK is connected to the eurpoean system however and prices can be affected by European supply and demand. Let’s hope Russia don’t decide to turn the taps off at any point.

2. We liquify Natural Gas (LNG), or more precisely Qatar and other middle eastern states do, and transport it to the UK on large refrigerated ships. The process is expensive and energy intensive in comparison to piping and locally producing it. I assume you’re happy with increased energy bills?

Those are basically the only two options (other than perhaps LNG from the US, which is also expensive). Alternatively the Uk can continue producing its own hydrocarbons which will be cheaper, more secure and not beholden to less stable nations.

TBH this all depends on whether fracking for unconventionals actually works in the UK (and Europe). There are significant variations in geology and stress regime in Europe to the US and as such is more a play concept than anything else in the UK. So far in Europe it’s been tried in multiple locations and never been economically/geologically successful.

option 1 and 2 both sound excellent.

Bert than option 3 use all domestic resources then be ****** when the crunch hits

also I think your kidding yourself if you think its non toxic got a source for that?

got the coshh sheets?

Tefal · 4 Oct 2017 at 23:13

Amp34 said:
So their reason is entirely public opinion, or is that a commentary on the replies they got?

The quote you provided doesn’t make that very clear...

Edit: and from another article -

https://www.energy-pedia.com/news/united-kingdom/scottish-government-backs-ban-on-fracking-171808

So have they done it because they have taken a “careful and evidence based approach”, or just because of the “overwhelming opposition”, which you’d expect in a controversial process. Environmental groups have templates set up for this sort of thing.

or you know both

Tefal · 4 Oct 2017 at 23:18

D.P. said:
while oil is a great energy source we certainly won't be using synthesized oil for vehicles. Electric will take over within a decade or 2. Some countries have already set out laws that combustion engines will be illegal from a certain date in the future.

I can't really see batteries taking over from petrochemicals in say helicopters any time soon. or in anything that operates in remote environments.