Buying a 1987 bungalow, updating and making good.

Hagar · 23 Oct 2017 at 16:59

This may end up as a bit of a project thread but as we are still pre-exchange it may fizzle out. There are no chains in either direction and no mortgage.

The bungalow in question is a typical three bed, built in 1987 and is need of quite a bit of updating.
Tasks identified from the Homebuyers survey are:

Rewire,
New CH boiler and CH checks, possibly rads;
New kitchen, old one falling to bits.

Obviously the decor needs smartening and new floor coverings throughout. Walls floors and roof are good.

We have decided to knock through kitchen and dining room and fill the arch between dining and living room to give two decent sized seperate rooms.

This is giving us some sleepless nights already as the timescale for the major items is short. Possible exchange / complete in early November, we are in rented with two months notice to give so that gives a bit of leeway but we would like to complete the wiring, plumbing removal of wall, kitchen and carpeting before we move in.

Christmas and general time of year possibly makes a big hole in getting trades in?

I have proposed diverting gas supply to repositioned hob and gas fire in the lounge via the roof space first, then removing the wall. Next a complete rewire and replace the boiler. Lastly build the new kitchen and lay carpeting throughout the house.

Any thoughts on this being complete to move by end of January? I thought possibly end of February.

All comments are welcomed, on timescales, winter working, anything else.

Adam_151 · 23 Oct 2017 at 20:44

nkata said:
Next a complete rewire and replace the boiler. Lastly build the new kitchen and lay carpeting throughout the house.

Out of interest, why are you going for a complete rewire? . A property wired in 87 shouldn't need a re-wire, now there will be exceptions to that, and possibly reasons why you'd go for one anyway

I'd imagine you'd probably want a new consumer unit, some re-wiring or major alterations in the kitchen and perhaps some small alterations where the wall is comming out

Hagar · 24 Oct 2017 at 09:23

Adam_151 said:
Out of interest, why are you going for a complete rewire? . A property wired in 87 shouldn't need a re-wire, now there will be exceptions to that, and possibly reasons why you'd go for one anyway

I'd imagine you'd probably want a new consumer unit, some re-wiring or major alterations in the kitchen and perhaps some small alterations where the wall is comming out

For sure, I retire in January and expect not to do major uplifts after this so we are looking to future proof the house for the next decade or two. If the electrician gives the existing circuits a clean bill, we will just add to it and amend as necessary. I was thinking wiring may need replacing after 30 years anyway, am I mistaken there?

a1ex2001 · 24 Oct 2017 at 10:21

nkata said:
For sure, I retire in January and expect not to do major uplifts after this so we are looking to future proof the house for the next decade or two. If the electrician gives the existing circuits a clean bill, we will just add to it and amend as necessary. I was thinking wiring may need replacing after 30 years anyway, am I mistaken there?

If the wiring was done properly in the late 80's it should be fine to use as a base for additions/alterations although if you are doing a lot of work like it sounds then it maywell be easier to just lay a couple of new circuits.

LeeUK · 24 Oct 2017 at 11:11

Adam_151 said:
Out of interest, why are you going for a complete rewire? . A property wired in 87 shouldn't need a re-wire, now there will be exceptions to that, and possibly reasons why you'd go for one anyway

I'd imagine you'd probably want a new consumer unit, some re-wiring or major alterations in the kitchen and perhaps some small alterations where the wall is comming out

My old grandparents had a bungalow that was built in the 80s, it still had an old rewireable fuse type box and most of the sockets were single sockets apart from the kitchen and likely "TV area" of the living room. Certainly not as many sockets in all the rooms as you would get these days either.

Hagar · 24 Oct 2017 at 11:33

LeeUK said:
My old grandparents had a bungalow that was built in the 80s, it still had an old rewireable fuse type box and most of the sockets were single sockets apart from the kitchen and likely "TV area" of the living room. Certainly not as many sockets in all the rooms as you would get these days either.

Rewireable fuse box, tick.

Sockets, yes, I will be speccing plenty, I think, 23 doubles in total (of which five are in the study bedroom) no room gets less than 3 double sockets.

So Alex, I think you and I agree probably new circuits. For socket zoning, I am going for Kitchen / dining as one circuit and then the rest of the space, lounge / bedrooms as another. Garage and external on an RCD

Adam_151 · 24 Oct 2017 at 11:42

nkata said:
I was thinking wiring may need replacing after 30 years anyway, am I mistaken there?

Wiring insulated with vulcanised india rubber was said to have a 25/30 year life span, as it was an organic material and over time / with contact with air, especially once central heating began to be installed, would go brittle and drop off. Early grades of PVC then had a defective plasticisor would would leak out and cause damage to fittings etc. Once we got to the 1980s though the stuff being installed was pretty much the same as it is today.

An accelerated aging study found that PVC cable run fully loaded upto uits 70C operating temperature, for 8 hours a day, would last 69 years, Domestic loadings are nothing like that, many circuits would never get anywhere near their max loading (such as upstairs sockets ring final) and others might be fully loaded for only a few minutes at a time with the majority of the time less than half loaded and 20 hours a day at trival load.

http://electrical.theiet.org/wiring-regulations/updates/commentary-02-update-2.cfm?type=pdf (of course if you fully load for 24/7, you'll need new cable in 23 years time, but that would be likely to be the least of your worries if you were consuming that much in a domestic situation)

TL

R; Modern grades of cable last practicually forever given the likely level of loading they are exposed to

Adam_151 · 24 Oct 2017 at 11:45

nkata said:
Garage and external on an RCD

Since 2008, RCD required for:

All general purpose socket outlets
All cabling concealled less than 50mm in a wall without additional protection
All points in the bathroom/showroom

We are probably looking at all domestic lighting circuits being added to that list in 2018, which in pratice won't actuallyy change much as its common practice now to RCD protect everything in a domestic property

Hagar · 24 Oct 2017 at 11:54

Adam_151 said:
http://electrical.theiet.org/wiring-regulations/updates/commentary-02-update-2.cfm?type=pdf (of course if you fully load for 24/7, you'll need new cable in 23 years time, but that would be likely to be the least of your worries if you were consuming that much in a domestic situation)

TLR; Modern grades of cable last practicually forever given the likely level of loading they are exposed to

Adam, thanks a lot for that info.

andy.

DXP55 · 25 Oct 2017 at 10:22

You can never have enough sockets - even in my first house in 1973 I put 12 doubles in lounge alone - Not all were used but at time we didn't know what furniture we would have and be in way of sockets - In my 1972 bungalow now I have two doubles side by side behind TV and they are not enough now. I put in as many as I thought I would need but still have bare areas -ie - three reclining chairs I didn't count on having.

I only put two doubles by one side of bed - I need them both sides now - silly things you miss so plan well.

Hagar · 25 Oct 2017 at 11:21

DXP55 said:
You can never have enough sockets - even in my first house in 1973 I put 12 doubles in lounge alone - Not all were used but at time we didn't know what furniture we would have and be in way of sockets - In my 1972 bungalow now I have two doubles side by side behind TV and they are not enough now. I put in as many as I thought I would need but still have bare areas -ie - three reclining chairs I didn't count on having.

I only put two doubles by one side of bed - I need them both sides now - silly things you miss so plan well.

I agree, I see MK (possibly others also) are doing triples now. Good for the study bedroom. In that room as well as the PC, printer etc. will be my vinyl collection hence deck, amp and speakers.

I want to avoid adaptors especially at first, so every conceivable appliance should have a socket. The TV corner will have the TV, PVR and HiFi (sounds outdated), I think that the furniture layout is sorted, we have acquired enough over the years.

My main concern is still the kitchen though, getting that wall knocked out and wiring and heating sorted throughout for early in the new year.

The house currently has a CH boiler with a pipe and trace heater going outside so I have assumed it is a combi. However there is also a tank with an immersion. I will have to get to the bottom of this. We only want a combi as there is only one bathroom and it is a small house anyway. I may take out the tanks in the roofspace and cupboard

DXP55 · 25 Oct 2017 at 13:29

At my last house when I built the extension I ran a 4mm cable just for the HiFi and had 8 sockets - it had it's own breaker and also had two consumer units side by side - Next to HiFi sockets had same number for TV etc. from ring main --HiFi will never date -it's your ears that date - That is one thing I miss most - Good quality sound - hearing aids are useless.