British Jihadis Should Be Killed Says Rory Stewart

HarryJ said:
Don't agree with Rory Stewart at all. I think these people who have been brainwashed and groomed by these people need help. We need to speak to them, rehabilitate them and understand their grievances. Deradicalise them for integration. Saying "just shoot them" is typical uneducated right wing populist nonsense.
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Amp34 said:
That’s a different scenario though, as you say. As I mentioned before attacking a defined military target - such as munitions store, convoy or emplacement - and killing a British national manning that position in the process is different to purposely targeting a British national with no other military benefit.

I doubt many would be against the former. I’m certainly not. That’s war. If they’re manning a militarily significant target then they get what’s coming to them.

The latter is a different kettle of fish, it’s extrajudicial killing/assassination. If the government have the evidence to know that that person has committed a crime and “deserves” killing, AND they know where they are (to be able to actually carry out the killing) then there surely must be enough evidence to convict that person if they ever decided to come back to the west.

The point being is that if the government decide they want to kill these people then there’s going to be a lot more evidence than just having entered Syria 5 years ago.
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Again, wonderfully idealistic yes and I absolutely agree with you. But what you say is we just wait out in the hope they return to the UK so we can snatch them and slap their wrists? All the while that they are in Syria, able to plot and orchestrate attacks against western locations and innocent people. All the while kidnap innocent aid workers and hack their heads off. When we can instead just execute them quite quickly and simply with a precisely guided missile and let them be forgotten about.
 
HarryJ said:
Don't agree with Rory Stewart at all. I think these people who have been brainwashed and groomed by these people need help. We need to speak to them, rehabilitate them and understand their grievances. Deradicalise them for integration. Saying "just shoot them" is typical uneducated right wing populist nonsense.
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Quite a lot of people are "brainwashed", susceptibility is the fundamental disease. There are many expressions of this, one of which would be terrorists, but its actually a far bigger problem than that.

If you want to target symptoms, then shooting them is the most logical thing to do.
 
Lets face it, if they spent time with ISIS then they are probably guilty of killing some poor Iraqi or Syrian person or soldier. The new recruits were made to do the dirty work to get them blooded and make them part of the cause. Why the hell would you want these people back in the UK? The lefty do gooders have enough blood on their hands, if they let these scum back in it will be worse.
 
I think the idea is that on the battlefield they are the enemy and offered all the rights a missile delivers in that war zone scenario.

Should they want to come back and chat about it theres a court and jail cell waiting were they can talk all they want and can receive the rehabilitation they need whilst safely locked away
 
doofski said:
Lets face it, if they spent time with ISIS then they are probably guilty of killing some poor Iraqi or Syrian person or soldier. The new recruits were made to do the dirty work to get them blooded and make them part of the cause. Why the hell would you want these people back in the UK? The lefty do gooders have enough blood on their hands, if they let these scum back in it will be worse.
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I don't normally agree with the method of "just shoot them" for many reason including being wrongly accused of a crime but when it comes to terrorism we have to eradicate the source, if killing 3 people to save 300 people it is worth doing, hell it's worth doing to say 10 people.
 
dowie said:
well I don't see an issue with targeting a British national who is known to be an ISIS fighter either tbh... I believe the French are actively taking this approach too. There is still the distinction that using intelligence to be able to target someone within a war zone doesn't necessarily mean you'd be able to prove anything beyond reasonable doubt in a court.
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I don’t necessarily think the distinction should be much different to the way armed police work. Most criminals are arrested, tried and jailed, but if they are a present threat then they can be killed if absolutely required. Just being in Syria fighting for ISIS isn’t a present threat.

While you’re right, some intelligence may not be enough to get them convicted, why is that much different to the way we treat murderers in the UK? We put violent, vicious people through the justice system and release them if they are considered not guilty (or not enough evidence), even if the police are sure they have the right guy. With the arguments being used in thread why do we not just kill them without trial?

gettothechopper said:
its nothing to do with targeting people because they are British nationals or not

we have been aiding local forces on the ground with airstrikes, the SDF move up, come under fire and the RAF attack the ISIS positions that are engaging our allies
if ISIS trucks are spotted in the open then they are also targeted

The dead ISIS fighters nationality will be found out afterwards
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Isn’t there a mismatch with what the minister said and what the opinion piece was about? The OP was just a link and run to an opinion piece.

RoboCod said:
Again, wonderfully idealistic yes and I absolutely agree with you. But what you say is we just wait out in the hope they return to the UK so we can snatch them and slap their wrists? All the while that they are in Syria, able to plot and orchestrate attacks against western locations and innocent people. All the while kidnap innocent aid workers and hack their heads off. When we can instead just execute them quite quickly and simply with a precisely guided missile and let them be forgotten about.
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No, I’m saying I don’t see why we should expend limited resources on assasinating people of limited military value just because they are British, while also saying that if they do happen to try returning to the UK (or another nation with extradition treaties with the UK) they should be arrested, tried and jailed.

While they’re in Syria they should be treated like any other ISIS fighter, rather than being promoted as a target over a potentially more useful military target that just so happen not to be from the UK.
 
I said 2 years ago the state should have done a sponsored excursion. Round up all the Brit jihadis and charter a boat and send them ourselves, but the boat should mysteriously disappear in the Atlantic ocean.
 
Gravitas said:
But you probably already know that. However, fun-seekers, you probably haven't read, yet, Richard Littlejohn's column on the issue. I was a bit taken aback by it - knowing the sort of people out there and the dangers of anyone daring to speaking out.

Have a butchers:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-5010729/A-politician-says-think-RICHARD-LITTLEJOHN.html
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I've always thought of Littlejohn as a ****** of the highest order, both on TV and in any of the newspapers, (and I use the word newspapers loosely), that he has ever had a column in, and I've never knowingly bought one of those papers.
If I've seen one carrying his column, it must have been a freebie on a plane, or left laying about in a barber shop, but, and here I'll probably be damned to hades by all the liberals, I find it kinda difficult to disagree with the gist of his proposals vis-a-vis British jihadis, or any of them come to that.
 
HarryJ said:
Don't agree with Rory Stewart at all. I think these people who have been brainwashed and groomed by these people need help. We need to speak to them, rehabilitate them and understand their grievances. Deradicalise them for integration. Saying "just shoot them" is typical uneducated right wing populist nonsense.
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Whilst I agree with some of your sentiment, you should do some research on Rory Stewart he's a much more complicated character than you give him credit for.
 
Amp34 said:
I don’t necessarily think the distinction should be much different to the way armed police work. Most criminals are arrested, tried and jailed, but if they are a present threat then they can be killed if absolutely required. Just being in Syria fighting for ISIS isn’t a present threat.

While you’re right, some intelligence may not be enough to get them convicted, why is that much different to the way we treat murderers in the UK? We put violent, vicious people through the justice system and release them if they are considered not guilty (or not enough evidence), even if the police are sure they have the right guy. With the arguments being used in thread why do we not just kill them without trial?
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Well they're in the U.K. and it is feasible to arrest them for a start. But I suppose that in the case of some committed terrorist or some mass murderer who does pose a threat to the point where they can legally be shot by the police then it probably is preferable IMO that they are shot.

I'd disagree the just being in Syria fighting for ISIS isn't a threat. I think there is a legitimate argument for killing ISIS fighters in general, if they happen to be British too then even more so.
 
Jean-F said:
I've always thought of Littlejohn as a ****** of the highest order, both on TV and in any of the newspapers, (and I use the word newspapers loosely), that he has ever had a column in, and I've never knowingly bought one of those papers.
If I've seen one carrying his column, it must have been a freebie on a plane, or left laying about in a barber shop, but, and here I'll probably be damned to hades by all the liberals, I find it kinda difficult to disagree with the gist of his proposals vis-a-vis British jihadis, or any of them come to that.
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Then you won't be aware that Littlejohn is Britain's finest columnist and has been for decades. And that's why The Editor always refers to him as "peerless".

"The Peerless Littlejohn".
 
Gravitas said:
The Daily Mail is for the decent, play by the rules, law abiding people of this country. It has been right about pretty much every major issue for decades.

Truly the voice of people.
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Lol I suppose if you are a knuckle dragging Neanderthal then you are right.
 
I think you are getting confused, Littlejohn was speaking of our knuckle dragging Neanderthal home brew jihadists, he's certainly not one of them, or writing to appease them. ;) It really is a ridiculous and childish generalisation to call all the readers of the most popular UK daily newspaper knuckle dragging Neanderthals.
 
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