Soldato
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That's absurd but I was more thinking about pursuing some kind of case against the woman who falsely accused him.
GD is going to love this one - Rape case collapse
- Thread starter VincentHanna
- Start date
That's absurd but I was more thinking about pursuing some kind of case against the woman who falsely accused him.
If your first appeal succeeds, you get no compensation. If a later appeal succeeds but it hasn’t been established that you are innocent (not just not guilty), you get no compensation. If the evidence does establish your innocence, there is a set rate for compensation, which is reduced (as you say) to account for room and board (originally a final ‘Up yours’ to the many Irish people who were framed by the police but now standard).
He will struggle to bring a successful claim against anyone. The harm was caused by the police’s mishandling of the unused material and the courts would be quite reluctant to award compensation for that unless there is evidence that the officer was acting in bad faith.
Going through the criminal justice system is a terrible experience but it’s as bad for anyone who is acquitted after a full trial as it was for him and they get nothing.
private litigation costs a crap load of money, and if the defendant has no money there is no point.
In any case, given the case you cite, I suspect even if he could afford it he would be advised against on the grounds that he could easily end up still looking the bad guy...
I said private prosecution, whether the defendant has any money or not is irrelevant.
Again it is private prosecution I'm referring to, the defendants financial situation, as I've already mentioned above, is irrelevant. Private prosecution costs are often recoverable from central funds and have nothing to do with the defendants financial situation.
Caporegime
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-42696986
Another rape case collapses, a accusation with zero proof, the CPS/police looking through a phone and disclosing to the defence that only a few texts of any relevance were found. Defence hires an expert to look at the phone and magically 4 pictures showing the pair acting like a couple in bed and both happy on the day in question. When the CPS is shown this they show no evidence or their own at all in the pre trial and the case is dismissed. Another case where a guy spent 17 months between arrest and trial in limbo over an accusation not only based on nothing but where there seems to be more willing collusion to hold evidence back from the defence to allow the case to go forwards.
How many of these cases are there. I can't believe for a second that a forensic expert looked on the phone for messages but didn't look for pictures. Were they planning to let this guy go down for rape with no evidence had the defence not hired their own expert and not found the pictures?
Another rape case collapses, a accusation with zero proof, the CPS/police looking through a phone and disclosing to the defence that only a few texts of any relevance were found. Defence hires an expert to look at the phone and magically 4 pictures showing the pair acting like a couple in bed and both happy on the day in question. When the CPS is shown this they show no evidence or their own at all in the pre trial and the case is dismissed. Another case where a guy spent 17 months between arrest and trial in limbo over an accusation not only based on nothing but where there seems to be more willing collusion to hold evidence back from the defence to allow the case to go forwards.
How many of these cases are there. I can't believe for a second that a forensic expert looked on the phone for messages but didn't look for pictures. Were they planning to let this guy go down for rape with no evidence had the defence not hired their own expert and not found the pictures?
I've always felt that the accused in these cases should be granted anonymity until they're found guilty. In exceptional circumstances, the police could go apply to a crown court for permission to reveal the name where there are reasonable grounds to believe they are a serial offender and doing so will encourage other victims to come forward.
As it stands, these people can be found innocent, but still have their name and photo plastered across the media and the internet - and there will always be people who think 'no smoke without fire'
As it stands, these people can be found innocent, but still have their name and photo plastered across the media and the internet - and there will always be people who think 'no smoke without fire'
Soldato
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Ruining innocent people's lives by wilfully ignoring crucial evidence in order to manipulate the figures is abhorrent, and just to rip the **** even more they actually have the temerity to lie about it when they get found out. Just as abhorrent is the fact that nobody seems to have been relieved of their jobs and brought up on charges over all of this.
Caporegime
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I think anonymity is important but not completely possible, you can bar the name being used in the press but as witnesses and friends are interviewed it's going to be incredibly difficult to keep the person anonymous where it really matters and that is locally. Long term sure move to a new town and have people research you when job hunting and it's bad but your local life will be damaged regardless.
The issue is for me that having your future hanging in the balance over lies for 17 months as the latest guy did primarily because the CPS/Police are utterly incompetent is insane. That guy was thinking the whole time he's likely to end up in jail over someone lying about him with the police and CPS cared more about the conviction than the truth. Another case of very easily accessible data by someone doing their job correctly that should be done in part of the initial investigation before charges are even brought being optimistically missed, cynically ignored.
This seems no different to someone being investigated for a murder, being given a alibi and the cops refusing to check the alibi for a couple of years while deciding to charge the guy for the murder, telling the world they think he's guilty of murder and letting his life crumble before someone finally proves it for them. Major steps in investigations seem to be being consistently overlooked, charges brought then even the times between charges being brought and the trial date seem to be absurdly long. Is it possible they know the evidence is bogus but are using delaying tactics hoping the defendant does what happens so often in the states, innocent but advised to seek a deal for pleading guilty to a lesser crime or a smaller sentence?
They say they are doing a review of similar cases in the past couple of years but for one thing, who is actually checking up on them doing that, who is preventing them making further mistakes and who says it's just the last few years this has been happening? Ultimately if these guys have been fudging cases on purpose for conviction rates and to look good, it's in their self interest to review the cases and claim they made no mistakes anyway.
You mean to tell me a woman can point her finger at a man and accuse him of rape, with no evidence or basis, and the man will face charges/potential prison time anyway?
You don't say. It must be hard being a woman, feminists have it right, being a man is ez mode.
You don't say. It must be hard being a woman, feminists have it right, being a man is ez mode.
Associate
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If this was me. I would lose my job. My entire career would be crushed and I’d no longer be welcome in my field as a teacher.
So would I be entitled to losses of wages? To me the whole situation sounds horrific. I believe that someone who makes the allegation, should make the allegation. But when no evidence supports it or the case is dismissed then the costs should be reimbursed even if by the CPS or whoever that is.
Cases like this frighten me
So would I be entitled to losses of wages? To me the whole situation sounds horrific. I believe that someone who makes the allegation, should make the allegation. But when no evidence supports it or the case is dismissed then the costs should be reimbursed even if by the CPS or whoever that is.
Cases like this frighten me
Soldato
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Only one thing for it, we men will have to start videoing all of our conquests just to be on the safe side. Wonder how long it'll be before we're forced to carry something like this?
Associate
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“Yeah, I need to video this.”
“What? No!”
“It’s to protect us both!”
Sure that’ll fly well!
Please note: Said the above in jest.
“What? No!”
“It’s to protect us both!”
Sure that’ll fly well!
Please note: Said the above in jest.
It will get worse, not better. A few powerless people will object on forums and a few accounts of some of the most blatant and easily proven abuses will briefly appear in the media with no effect beyond some meaningless words about reviews that would be irrelevant even if the reviews actually took place.
No politican has the power to oppose feminism even if any have the will to do so, so this abuse can only get worse, not better. Right now it's sometimes possible to uncover the concealed evidence of innocence if you are lucky/rich enough to have a good enough lawyer. That could easily change. Evidence of innocence could be erased or the law could be changed to prevent disclosure of it.
Nobody can plausibly claim to be unaware of the campaigning to "believe the victim", nor can anyone plausibly claim to not understand what that means. It means the same as it always has - if a person in a target group identity is accused (especially by someone with a higher status group identity) then the low status group identity is to be presumed guilty. So if a man is accused, guilt must be presumed. That's the whole point of it and the sole point of it - presumption of guilt based solely on group identity and group status. The most infamous extreme example is lynching in segregationist USA, but the principle has been applied to many groups in many times and places.
Obviously, if guilt is presumed then the goal is to not have any meaningful investigation or trial because any meaningful investigation or trial is directly opposed to the principle of believing the person with higher group identity status. Any investigation or trial is supposed to be a sham, a pretence of justice, a show. That's what presumption of guilt is for - if guilt must be presumed from the beginning, questioning it is not to be allowed and any pretence that it is being questioned is just a cloak to be used until the ideology of bigotry has enough power to do away with it and as a tool to move towards that power, i.e. the cloak can be attacked as being proof that the required presumption of guilt is not happening. Which is, of course, what feminists are doing now by lobbying against investigations and trials on the basis that they are "revictimising the victims" and suchlike.
Then there's the powerful tool of statistics. Increasing the number of allegations of rape will of course reduce the conviction rate as it will inevitably result in a higher proportion of allegations without enough evidence to guarantee a conviction in a fair trial. That's perfect for feminism because the reduction in the conviction rate is a superb weapon against men. It's a number. It's proof! Of course, the only way to increase the conviction rate is to presume men are guilty and reduce the requirements for a conviction. See above.
You will probably have noticed that no feminists have said there's anything wrong with innocent men being convicted of rape, even those who acknowledge the existence of innocent men. The only thing they're concerned about is that any mention of these deliberate abuses of justice in order to convict innocent men might possibly threaten the automatic presumption that men are guilty. So the only thing they see as being wrong is that these events are being reported. They don't give a damn about innocent men being convicted, nor about the effect that has on men in general. Why would they? The whole point of feminism is to consider female people only. That's what biological group advocacy ideologies are for - to consider the chosen biological group identity only.
As for people being sacked or charged, well, a couple of men might be used as scapegoats if it's convenient to do so in order to bury the issue more quickly. They won't be the people responsible, of course, just some disposible men. Maybe in future the abuses of justice might be hidden a bit better. But more likely it'll just cease to be news. After all, it's guaranted that all the victims are men so it's not important.
Man of Honour
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Does any legal bod on here know why she can't be named after ruining this blokes life?
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1992/34/section/1
Because allowing the "victim" to remain anonymous has shown to increase rape conviction rates.
Yup. You just read that.
Man of Honour
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Yikes!
It's not really about presuming guilt, but rather supporting the victim. It's actually quite funny how a lot of feminists I know and read about always talk about men focusing on themselves when discussing feminism and here we are!
I'd take an educated guess and say that the reason you don't see widespread outrage from feminists about wrongful convictions is because it's something that's been used to argue against the widespread abuse women face and the stigmas associated with a girl crying rape (for attention, money, regretting last night etc.). They don't threaten the all men are guilty narrative you seem to think they have but rather it fuels the stigmas I mentioned above and enables people (not just men) to continue to get away with sexual abuse as the abusers have no faith in being protected.
There's more than one type of feminism and you can't tar them all with the same brush. An intersectional feminist is going to have radically different views to a separatist feminist (closer to what you're describing).
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42643504
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/15/opinion/aziz-ansari-babe-sexual-harassment.html
If you focus on one type of feminism you don't see stories like the above which actually support many of the things you've previously expressed about things like the #MeToo movement, coming from female feminists too.