California prepares to legalize marijuana on New Year's Day
- Thread starter maklabouhlel
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Pretty sure that BS at least on an official level. However I know that most of the police round here (Staffordshire) typically cant be bothered if you are smoking out of the way and not causing a nuisance. There are that many people in this country that already smoke and getting hold of it is so easy that it may as well be decriminalised.
it has basically been legalised over there for a while, albeit people needed to get a "medical" reason to use it which in reality anyone who wanted to could get
when you're growing controlled drugs - seems pretty logical tbh.. for example magic mushrooms grow in the wild in the UK but they're also a class A drug, if you decided to try and cultivate some yourself at home you could get in a bit of trouble
(OK they're a fungus rather than a plant but same principle)
when you're growing controlled drugs - seems pretty logical tbh.. for example magic mushrooms grow in the wild in the UK but they're also a class A drug, if you decided to try and cultivate some yourself at home you could get in a bit of trouble
(OK they're a fungus rather than a plant but same principle)
Cart before horse here.
It is illogical for the growing and consumption of a naturally occurring plant or fungus to be unlawful.
Therefore the the materials produced by this cultivation should not be controlled.
I am perfectly happy to see the logic in prohibiting trade in said products. either by cash or barter. but the idea that the act of planting a seed and watching it grow and eating/smoking the leaves/sap/whatever should be a criminal act just seems logically unsustainable to me.
Why?
So to follow this argument "logically" cocaine and crack cocaine, materials produced from the cultivation of coca plants shouldn't be controlled? (outside of the trade in them you mention below)
Why is it illogical? If a substance is to be banned or controlled then making laws against people growing it would seem to be fairly prudent and rather logical. Seems rather flawed to try to control something but then leave in place a massive loophole.
I can’t see it happening with the Conservatives in power, but you never know...
There is already a process in motion for the possibility of it to be sold for medicinal users here
I’ve seen enough evidence myself that I can only think the government is receiving bribes or pressure to keep it illegal - for medicinal purposes, it can literally changed a persons well being.
I've seen too many youngsters escalate from cannabis, to likes of heroin or cocaine
How do you know it’s the cannabis causing them to escalate to those other substances, research seems to suggest it isn’t a gateway drug but many of the studies on it seem to be poorly controlled/carried out.
Personally I think any substance that gives you a slight buzz or a high could lead to you chasing a more intense/different version. I just think it’s very difficult to identify whether it was the cause or whether they would have ended up taking those anyway.
Because it is a plant, It occurs naturally, it is not a manufactured product like a Gun or Sword
Please provide link for where I can get seeds for the crack cocaine plant. Is it in the same aisle as the crystal meth tree?
Seriously, there is a distinction between the natural product (The Leaf) and the highly processed street product.
The natural leaf is relatively harmless and actually provides protection against mountain sickness which is why it has always been taken in the Andes.
The highly concentrated, and indeed chemically altered, street product is a different thing altogether.
In principle a home grower could concentrate their own cocoa leaves, but there really wouldn't be any point. The only point is for transport and trade. something that is already illegal and would remain so in my hypothetical world.
Again, that Horse and Cart thing.
If it is illogical to make growing the wrong sort of seed or eating the wrong sort of food unlawful, then it is also illogical to make the products that are contained therein unlawful.
The control is in the control of trade. the trade flourishes because it is profitable. I accept that prohibition of trade is only of limited effectiveness but I do not see replacing the Medellín cartels with BAT as being a good solution. Allowing those who wish to to grow their own to do so while at the same time maintaining restrictions on trade would go a long way towards damaging the money flow in the illegal trade.
The biggest opponents to permitting home growing is actually likely to be the illegal trade. They would view allowing people to home grow in the same light as Microsoft would regard somebody writing a Linux distro that could seamlessly run Windows applications.
Discussions like this always end up referring to the US 18th amendment as the prime example as to why prohibition doesn't work. Its almost a sort of Godwins Law for drugs talk.
The problem with the 18th amendment is that it sought to ban alcohol altogether. This wasn't actually what most of the temperance campaigners had in mind. They sought to ban distilled alcohol but would have been fine permitting naturally brewed drinks.
Had they restricted the Ban to spirits, or at least permitted home brewing of Beer and Cider and wine, then there would have been a lot less public resistance. Far reduced opportunities for organised crime and the 18th amendment might well have survived to the current day.
Edit to add.
In support of the above assertion, it is worth noting that many parts of the US have local prohibition laws in place to this day
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dry_communities_by_U.S._state#Kansas
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What's with all the "ensuring"?
Do we have to ensure people don't eat cow pat?
Do we have to ensure people don't swallow a cactus?
Do we have to ensure people don't do things they don't want to be doing?
People should be free to make their own choices. This reliance on the state to do everything for everyone, including raising children, is just bad.
There's no need for any "ensuring" whatsoever.
that doesn't make it inherently illogical to ban people from cultivating it
well there would be a point - to get high/make use of the loophole you've allowed
Why is it illogical though? You've not established that. Its seems pretty logical to make growing a controlled substance illegal if you seek to ban/control that substance. Talk of carts and horses has no relevance here... if something grows in the wild then so be it - it doesn't make it illogical that deliberately cultivating it could be made illegal.
And again re: the products... this could include heroin, crack cocaine etc.. at one point it was legal to grow and sell magic mushrooms unprepared, it still made sense to ban the resulting preparations. It doesn't necessarily logically follow that even if you allow the plant(or fungus in this case) itself that it would be illogical to ban the products contained.
There are many reasons why a government may want to criminalise a plant.
It reverses governmental mantra of divide and conquer.
It stops people being good slaves for the elite capitalists, turns them lazy, makes them always be happy with what they've got.
100% free and highly effective symptomatic relief from many medical problems.
I could go on.
I think you've answered the question you asked, I can't prove anything, but I can assume for example that someone who has never touched drugs, is far less likely to jump in at the deep end.
It doesn't work anyway, people will take it if they want to, as is the case already.
Absolutely.
One issue with legalising after it has been illegal for a long time is the gangs.
What do the established drug gangs do once their plant is worthless?
I mean the government has fixed the price so high for drugs like cannabis. It is ridiculously expensive for what it is, a literal weed, lol.
What happens when the gang's commodity is suddenly rendered worthless?
What do the established drug gangs do once their plant is worthless?
I mean the government has fixed the price so high for drugs like cannabis. It is ridiculously expensive for what it is, a literal weed, lol.
What happens when the gang's commodity is suddenly rendered worthless?