Has anyone elses salary been affected by the gender pay gap yet?

Well I wouldn't go that far but from a business perspective to make a unilateral decision to alter wages policy based on evidence that has been debunked by some of the most respected economists in the world is idiotic in my opinion.
 
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At the end of the day if companies were paying women less for the exact same job then why are companies not predominantly full of women?

Because men hate women and want to oppress them. You need to start from that belief and interpret everything to fit it. Then you'll understand feminism. Like all biological group advocacy ideologies, it includes blaming its victims. Any ideology that's based on dividing humanity into two group identities as a route to power needs to promote group identity and group blame is the most effective route to that goal. "It's all their fault" promotes group identity, provides a simple enemy group, promotes division, promotes lack of thought and creates an opening for people to position themself as Heroic Defenders of the Good People...and that's key to gaining power in this way. It doesn't matter what the basis for the group identities is. Biological, political, whatever. It all works the same way because it's all fundamentally the same ideology - group advocacy, which of course requires group identity. Men, Jews, Communists, "blacks", Eurasia, whatever. Whatever target group identity best serves any particular strain of the ideology.
 
Where I work (which is a huge organization with a few 10,000 employees) the people who earned the most bonus pay in 2016 were women on maternity leave. Figure that one out...
 
Where I work (which is a huge organization with a few 10,000 employees) the people who earned the most bonus pay in 2016 were women on maternity leave. Figure that one out...

Exactly what the figures show but women don't even take into consideration and relay on emotion as their argument or reason to dismiss it.

Femenists say the want equality. Well what they seem to want is in their favour.
 
Birmingham council had to sell the NEC because it paid dinner ladies less than bin men which was argued was equivalent work.

http://www.birminghampost.co.uk/business/business-news/nec-group-sold-ldc-307m-8460037
That is disgusting. I note that after selling assets such as the NEC, the Council will now have to borrow £600 million to reach settlements with the dinner ladies, et al.

Then going forwards as much as 3/4 of their annual revenue will be used to service the debt... effectively crippling council-run services to pay off the dinner ladies, and earn the banks a tidy sum from the taxpayer too.

FFS. It absolutely should not be allowed for any Council to take on massive debts to pay settlements. This is effectively burning our tax dollars at the whim of union lawyers.

And who decided a dinner lady and a bin man are the same job? Muppets. The nature of the work is different, the working hours and shift patterns are different. The conditions are different. The pay might be similar but how in the nine hells can anyone say that a dinner lady is the "female equivalent" of a bin man?

Society today is bonkers.

e: Holy ****

The tribunal decided, amongst other things, that a female canteen worker is of equal value to a qualified plumber.

Just... no.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2014/03/the-scourge-of-equal-pay/

e: Final edit... the tribunal noted that some bin men were earning £45k pa... thanks to massive amounts of overtime paid at 1.5x. The basic salary was £20-30k depending on role, so that's a heck of a lot of overtime. The highest paid roles were drivers with team management responsibility too.

The school dinner-ladies on the other hand wouldn't ever need to do overtime... they work at set times of day. But the unions/tribunal included the bin men's overtime payments and decided that the dinner ladies were being under payed by tens of thousands... it makes zero sense (to me).

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1346480/Birmingham-binmen-strike-paid-45K-year.html

e3: LOL, it gets worse. The over-time payments were negotiated with the trade unions in the first place. The same unions that are now using the overtime to decide that a dinner lady is underpaid.

It's absolute madness. Public sector unions seem to have completely lost their intended purpose.
 
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the other funny thing about that is the bin men were on strike recently... their union wants them to be paid more whereas if they are then the council would presumably need to also pay the dinner ladies more too etc... but I guess the debt from that existing settlement is probably going to affect pay for their workers across the board for the near future and/or force them to cut back on some services
 
the other funny thing about that is the bin men were on strike recently... their union wants them to be paid more whereas if they are then the council would presumably need to also pay the dinner ladies more too etc... but I guess the debt from that existing settlement is probably going to affect pay for their workers across the board for the near future and/or force them to cut back on some services
Sadly I can't find it funny in the slightest :(

Who seriously, after giving it proper consideration, decides that a dinner lady was equally as "valuable" as a qualified plumber?

You could argue that everybody is equally "valuable" in society, as we all need dinner ladies just as we need plumbers.

But surely the value of the plumber is higher, based on the training required, the investment in tools, certificates (which have to be renewed). The skills, the knowledge, the craft...

Whereas a dinner lady slops porridge on your plate and cleans up the dirty dishes.

How could any reasonable human being conclude that those roles were of equal value? The tribunal that decided against Birmingham council did just that.
 
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How could any reasonable human being conclude that those roles were of equal value? The tribunal that decided against Birmingham council did just that.

What makes you think reasonable people are running the show? The entire point is to promote sexism, which rules out "reasonable" straight away.
 
Birmingham council had to sell the NEC because it paid dinner ladies less than bin men which was argued was equivalent work.

http://www.birminghampost.co.uk/business/business-news/nec-group-sold-ldc-307m-8460037
That is disgusting. I note that after selling assets such as the NEC, the Council will now have to borrow £600 million to reach settlements with the dinner ladies, et al.
Who seriously, after giving it proper consideration, decides that a dinner lady was equally as "valuable" as a qualified plumber?

5minute check these articles are misleading/sensationalist headlines, they are not saying dinner lady = plumber

read here

FACTS

Female employees at Sunderland City Council brought equal pay claims relating to bonus arrangements. Historically, jobs attracting the bonus payments had typically been done by men and jobs not attracting the payments had typically been done by women.

From 1997 until 2007, local authorities were obliged to implement the “single status” agreement to standardise arrangements for determining terms and conditions. Once a local authority achieved single status, the bonus schemes were withdrawn. However, some employees who had benefited from the bonuses became covered by pay protection schemes enabling them to continue to receive bonuses for a period of time.

The claimants fell into five groups: caterers, cleaners, carers, school support staff and leisure centre attendants. The comparators were gardeners, road sweepers, drivers and refuse collectors. The claimants brought equal pay claims in respect of the period before implementation of single status and the period during which predominantly male groups of employees benefited from pay protection.

The tribunal dealt first with the period before single status and considered whether or not the non-payment of bonuses was genuinely due to a material factor other than the difference of sex (the genuine material factor defence).

DECISION

The tribunal held that the genuine material factor defence failed, except in respect of the leisure centre attendants. The Employment Appeal Tribunal (EAT) dismissed the council’s appeal and the council appealed to the Court of Appeal.

The main issue before the Court of Appeal was a challenge to the employment tribunal’s finding that the bonus schemes had long since ceased to have anything to do with productivity. The council maintained that the productivity link was unbroken throughout the years covered by the claims ...

so - under "single status" they have as much right to bonuses (in proportion to their salary) as male workers who were being paid them irrespective of productivity.
 
5minute check these articles are misleading/sensationalist headlines, they are not saying dinner lady = plumber

read here



so - under "single status" they have as much right to bonuses (in proportion to their salary) as male workers who were being paid them irrespective of productivity.

Shhhh, that doesn't support the narrative.
 
further link
but - do some research yourselves

..
The claims against both authorities, stretching over six years, arose out of the payment of bonuses to predominantly male workers. The claimants were drawn from a wide-range of groups, including caterers, cleaners and carers, with comparators drawn from, among others, highways, waste management and drivers. Broadly, the claimants submitted that the bonuses paid to the comparators had become automatically payable so the link with productivity had been lost. In the ET the Bury justification of genuine material factor under s1(3) of the Equal Pay Act 1970 was found to be a sham while in the case of Sunderland the ET found that their bonus schemes were not genuine and thus sex-tainted for some groups of workers. In the separate pay protection claim against Bury, the ET had upheld their s1(3) defence partly because of affordability.

In this judgment, Underhill J provides a comprehensive review of the relevant case-law, statutory provisions and the history of the various agreements regulating public sector pay grades. In the Bury bonus scheme claim, the EAT concludes, among other things, that the council had provided an explanation for the differential but that explanation was Enderby type indirect sex discrimination. Further that showing schemes to be non-discriminatory at their inception did not mean they would still be non-discriminatory 10 or 20 years later. In the Sunderland bonus claim, they state that at para 51

"It is important not to lose sight of the purpose for which the question is being asked. The comparators were being paid more than the Claimants for doing work which had been rated as being of the same value. That could only (so far as relevant for present purposes) be justified if the additional amount represented a reward for doing more than the basic work expected of them. The effect of the Tribunal's findings was that that was not the case. The fact that, as a matter of history, the level of work expected reflected what had once been regarded as exceptional does not mean that performance of the relevant tasks was exceptional during the relevant period or that that was what the bonus was being paid for.

On the pay protection claim, they concluded, among other things, that the practicability of payment was not a material consideration so the ET had erred in uphold the Council's defence and that affordability must be justified; that was not the case here.


edit
Shhhh, that doesn't support the narrative.
agree, it is incomplete - but enoiugh to show the baseline headlines were misleading/sensationalist ?
 
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The world is going mad. I don’t even recognise it anymore. Gender pay gap is forced equality, it’s a scam.
 
the other funny thing about that is the bin men were on strike recently... their union wants them to be paid more whereas if they are then the council would presumably need to also pay the dinner ladies more too etc... but I guess the debt from that existing settlement is probably going to affect pay for their workers across the board for the near future and/or force them to cut back on some services

I'd say a bin man is a "higher" job than a dinner lady anyway, it's also something that's a vital service. There's far more risk (working in traffic, risk of infection from the waste, injury from the machinery), you need to be physically fit and work in all weather conditions.

A dinner lady just needs to turn up and throw some slop on a few plates.

I also don't see many women working as bin men, none actually. Maybe there needs to be a drive to get more in to that line of work, because there's clearly gender inequality there...
 
Do companies look at it as an average across the entire staff workforce?

Where I used to work a lot of female staff were part time and male staff would do more hours therefore as an average it would appear that male members of staff are paid more for doing the same job. It wasn't as though women were told they could only do part time, it was their choice and the hours were available for them. As an average women may go off on maternity pay and a lot would take the 6 months paid and then take a reduced rate or sabbatical for another six months which would also reduce their average pay and if enough did it then it could look as though they were being paid below the minimum wage.
 
Do companies look at it as an average across the entire staff workforce?

Where I used to work a lot of female staff were part time and male staff would do more hours therefore as an average it would appear that male members of staff are paid more for doing the same job. It wasn't as though women were told they could only do part time, it was their choice and the hours were available for them. As an average women may go off on maternity pay and a lot would take the 6 months paid and then take a reduced rate or sabbatical for another six months which would also reduce their average pay and if enough did it then it could look as though they were being paid below the minimum wage.
That is where the “Pay Gap” comes from and why anyone with an ounce of brain knows it does not exist, but alas the left does not go by facts.
 
Do companies look at it as an average across the entire staff workforce?

Where I used to work a lot of female staff were part time and male staff would do more hours therefore as an average it would appear that male members of staff are paid more for doing the same job. It wasn't as though women were told they could only do part time, it was their choice and the hours were available for them. As an average women may go off on maternity pay and a lot would take the 6 months paid and then take a reduced rate or sabbatical for another six months which would also reduce their average pay and if enough did it then it could look as though they were being paid below the minimum wage.

That is where the “Pay Gap” comes from and why anyone with an ounce of brain knows it does not exist, but alas the left does not go by facts.

They are talking about 'mean hourly rates' of pay being less for women:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42580194
 
"Mean Hourly Rates" is a totally useless statistic for determining if people are paid equally though, which is the point everyone is making.

The key thing it shows you is the distribution of genders across the seniority scale. It doesn't tell you if men and women are paid the same for doing the exact same job.
 
"Mean Hourly Rates" is a totally useless statistic for determining if people are paid equally though, which is the point everyone is making.

The key thing it shows you is the distribution of genders across the seniority scale. It doesn't tell you if men and women are paid the same for doing the exact same job.

I wish people would understand the difference between the 'Gender Pay Gap' and 'Equal Pay'. The Gender Pay Gap typically exists because their are more men in senior management, in higher paying technical roles, more women in admin roles etc etc (we can argue why another time), so men on average are paid more than women as a whole.

If we look at Equal Pay, comparing what men and women earn for doing work of equal value, the majority of companies show very little difference between men and women - as is should be because equal pay has been in UK law since 1970 and its only fair that regardless of gender you get paid the same for doing the same work.

This is more about why are more men in higher paid roles than women (largely cultural/society driven over past decades).
 
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