Grenfell speeder

[Thekwango]

I'd say the social benefit of allowing him to keep his licence (and therefore his job) is too great to revoke his licence. Good decision by the judge.

what about the risk of him smashing gods knows how many people to bits if he loses control or is involved in an accident at those sorts of speed - there ain't a lot of social benefit in those instances.

as someone who should have known better he should have been treated more harshly, not less!

 

[Thekwango]

You're not really doing anything that's life-saving though, you're a consultant engineer according to your profile. I am sure the driver can't do whatever the heck he wants either.

but he can drive as fast as he wants? and I/we/you have to accept that because of his job?

 

[TNGL]

what about the risk of him smashing gods knows how many people to bits if he loses control or is involved in an accident at those sorts of speed - there ain't a lot of social benefit in those instances.

as someone who should have known better he should have been treated more harshly, not less!

but he can drive as fast as he wants? and I/we/you have to accept that because of his job?

What I am considering:
What are the odds of him saving multiple lives in the future if he keeps his job (hint: they are high)?
What are the odds of him saving multiple lives without being able to carry out his job (hint: they are small)?
What are the odds of him killing somebody as a result of breaking road laws given he has just recently been prosecuted for that offence (hint: they are likely to be small)?


What you seem to be considering:
What are the odds of him killing somebody as a result of breaking road laws given he has just recently been prosecuted for that offence (hint: they are likely to be small)?

So you want to see him unable to save lives in order to minimise the odds of him killing somebody by speeding again? Or are you just assuming the odds of him killing somebody through his driving are far too great for him to possibly be allowed to keep his licence, his job and therefore his ability to continue to save lives?

 

[terley]

Personally i have no issue with certain people driving at that speed..

My dad was a rank 1 pursuit driver and the longest serving police officer in his area, he would regularly get up to those speeds, he never had a crash.. but you have to realise.. Whereas most motorists commute, or use their car for the shops etc.. These drivers are more than professionals.
Racking up over 200,000 hours driving experience on the job alone throughout their career.

Yeah it could be considered dangerous, especially on busy motorways.

As the article says it was a quiet day with little traffic.

 

[Chris Wilson]

Welsh magistrates are not known for motoring offence leniency, especially to the English, (despite the fact English tourism keeps the place going...), one might make a wild stab that this guy could perhaps be Welsh? He chose a Welsh advocate, good move there son

 

[Thekwango]

What I am considering:
What are the odds of him saving multiple lives in the future if he keeps his job (hint: they are high)?
What are the odds of him saving multiple lives without being able to carry out his job (hint: they are small)?
What are the odds of him killing somebody as a result of breaking road laws given he has just recently been prosecuted for that offence (hint: they are likely to be small)?


What you seem to be considering:
What are the odds of him killing somebody as a result of breaking road laws given he has just recently been prosecuted for that offence (hint: they are likely to be small)?

So you want to see him unable to save lives in order to minimise the odds of him killing somebody by speeding again? Or are you just assuming the odds of him killing somebody through his driving are far too great for him to possibly be allowed to keep his licence, his job and therefore his ability to continue to save lives?

i'm not going to dig out the stats for the likelihood of him causing a crash by being having a flagrant disregard for road laws. but I imagine they are higher than you think. that though to me is irrelevant. he is in a position where he knows the damage caused by speeding yet chose (chooses) to speed. what he does for a living is irrelevant. it doesn't give him carte blanche to drive how he pleases. I personally think it's disgusting that anyone would be justifying his speeding and reckless behaviour. even more disgusting that a judge has pretty much done just that, justified he driving.

as I said, he wasn't just doing a touch over 70, he was doing 116mph, with points on his license already. 1st time offence and doing 80, yea sure. 116mph with 6 points, absolutely no way he should have walked away from that with a reduced sentence.

 

[Thekwango]

Personally i have no issue with certain people driving at that speed..

My dad was a rank 1 pursuit driver and the longest serving police officer in his area, he would regularly get up to those speeds, he never had a crash.. but you have to realise.. Whereas most motorists commute, or use their car for the shops etc.. These drivers are more than professionals.
Racking up over 200,000 hours driving experience on the job alone throughout their career.

Yeah it could be considered dangerous, especially on busy motorways.

As the article says it was a quiet day with little traffic.

irrelevant, just because your dad can handle a car at 116mph doesn't make it ok for him to drive on the roads at those speeds. it'll have been luck rather than his skill/training that prevented someone walking/pulling out in front of him and him not being able to stop.

 

[terley]

irrelevant, just because your dad can handle a car at 116mph doesn't make it ok for him to drive on the roads at those speeds. it'll have been luck rather than his skill/training that prevented someone walking/pulling out in front of him and him not being able to stop.

Not irrelevant, it would only be done in situations in which you claim someone could walk out on to the road, or another motorist cut infront of him would be impossible..

I.e. dead motorway.

 

[Thekwango]

Not irrelevant, it would only be done in situations in which you claim someone could walk out on to the road, or another motorist cut infront of him would be impossible..

I.e. dead motorway.

sorry I'm not understanding what you're saying? are you saying the guys dad would only have driven at those speeds when he knew the road was clear?

 

[platinum87]

He saves peoples lives, why do you want someone like that banned?

It's not like he's just some salesman who would lose his job

The sentence should be about what speed on what road at what time. I've been on motorways in late night early morning where it is just dead, other times it is busy, then you have normal roads and such. This is common sense and what needs to be thought about. NOT who he is or what he does.

The first change i would make to courts is make it blind process. I.e the judge or jury cannot see anyone except the lawyers. So if you go to court then you will be in a room with a PC and write all your responses in text etc.

People like to think they are fair and unbiased but that is simply not true, i would like to say i am, because i am some sort of sociopath who has suppressed my emotions and does not really care about anyone's life.

But even that is wrong and even i am still biased, if you argue you are speeding on an empty motorway etc, then i'll let you off tbh, if that is true and i am aware of it but you argue you save peoples lives, donate to charity and do volunteer work, then i would ban you immediately. That is how i am biased, you can cry all you want i wouldn't care, others would however.

The article talks about the latter, and i wonder what was said in court, but i am leaning to it being pretty much along the lines of the article.

 

[terley]

sorry I'm not understanding what you're saying? are you saying the guys dad would only have driven at those speeds when he knew the road was clear?

No i am saying that somebody with literally 99% more experience in driving than the general public are generally completely safe doing far over the speed limit in situations that could allow it..

Are you saying the German autobahn is a terrible idea? even though the majority of motorists who use it travel between 80-90mph

The speed limit is created to reduce serious crashes, this is because the majority of motorists are average drivers at best.

 

[Fusion]

Racking up over 200,000 hours driving experience on the job alone throughout their career.

That's over 106 years of solid driving at 40 hours per week and 47 weeks working/year! No wonder he was the longest serving officer. What was he driving, Karl Benz's Motorwagen?

 

[Thekwango]

No i am saying that somebody with literally 99% more experience in driving than the general public are generally completley safe doing far over the speed limit in situations that they would be safe..

so these individuals are entitled to judge the road conditions for themselves and decide which stretches of road are safe for them to drive at 116mph? get a grip man.

Are you saying the German autobahn is a terrible idea? even though the majority of motorists who use it travel between 80-90mph

we're not talking about the german autobahn.

 

[terley]

That's over 106 years of solid driving at 40 hours per week and 47 weeks working/year! No wonder he was the longest serving officer. What was he driving, Karl Benz's Motorwagen?

Didn't take in to account the working week, would be more like 75,000 hours.

 

[terley]

so these individuals are entitled to judge the road conditions for themselves and decide which stretches of road are safe for them to drive at 116mph? get a grip man.

Well yeah, i'd say they would be far better at doing it than anyone else.

And the autobahn is a viable point of comparison, especially if you claim that doing any speed over the speed limit is likely to cause an accident..

 

[Thekwango]

Well yeah, i'd say they would be far better at doing it than anyone else.

no, i'm sorry you but can't have people deciding for themselves when they can and can't break the law.

And the autobahn is a viable point of comparison, especially if you claim that doing any speed over the speed limit is likely to cause an accident..

I never said that.

 

[Bear]

Well yeah, i'd say they would be far better at doing it than anyone else.

What on earth are you smoking? He’s a paramedic not a racing driver, hes probably is lucky to drive much faster than 60mph a few times a week

And the autobahn is a viable point of comparison, especially if you claim that doing any speed over the speed limit is likely to cause an accident..

No it’s not, it’s irrelevant. In Germany the drivers have pretty good lane discipline, in the UK it’s atrocious.

 

[Street]

Welsh magistrates are not known for motoring offence leniency, especially to the English, (despite the fact English tourism keeps the place going...), one might make a wild stab that this guy could perhaps be Welsh? He chose a Welsh advocate, good move there son

I know this full well! I got busted for doing 80 on exactly the same stretch of road many years back.

 

[atpbx]

what about the risk of him smashing gods knows how many people to bits if he loses control or is involved in an accident at those sorts of speed - there ain't a lot of social benefit in those instances.

as someone who should have known better he should have been treated more harshly, not less!

What about the actual facts of the matter rather than the what ifs?

He hasnt killed anybody, didnt kill anybody, wasnt in accident of any kind, he just drove faster than the speed limit.

He actually works at a critical position in the health service and banning him from driving and preventing him from doing his job over a misdemeanour and not something serious would be the actions of someone suffering from brain death.

 

[Dis86]

You're not really doing anything that's life-saving though, you're a consultant engineer according to your profile. I am sure the driver can't do whatever the heck he wants either.

Who designs machines which keep.people alive?
He might save a life in a day. I might design something that saves thousands.