Nvidia Ampere might launch as GeForce GTX 2070 and 2080 on April 12th

[crinkleshoes]

On release they are... Much like the xx80 gpu's with their 'considerable' performance uplifts from last gen xx80ti are on their release

No, they're the mid-range SKU... the full size chip cut down to a smaller size.

Simply because the new mid-range is a bit faster than the last gen top tier, does not magically make it the top tier SKU.

 

[crinkleshoes]

When the 1080 was released the GP100 was already in the wind showing that much bigger performance uplifts were possible - thinking of the 1080 as "high end" in that context because it could match or beat the previous generation high end is just fooling yourself - regardless of what nVidia might or might not sell it at or how long until the inevitable faster cards of that generation come along.

Exactly... Nvidia withheld the full fat SKU because they knew people would buy the 1/2 or 2/3 SKU... especially when they changed the branding, starting with the 600 series.

 

[fowler002]

The 680, 980 and 1080 were all mid-range parts... not sure what you're getting at there.

Anandtech shows 30-40% improvement.

The problem is that, because of a lack of any competition from AMD, Nvidia have been milking the market by releasing their mid-range / mobile GPU as the new high-end for ~6 months and have been withholding the full fat chip the maximise profits, stifling the market and delaying development because they no longer need to work as hard to be the best.

It's good that their new mid-range outperforms the old high-end... but the practise of milking the market and re-branding the mid-range gpus to x70/x80 to mislead people like you into believing they are actually the high end chip is unethical.

Both companies (well ATi, not AMD) used to push the boundaries of what was possible and keep doing it... now AMD are either unable to unwilling to compete and Nvidia have fallen back to doing barely enough to stay ahead.

Competition is good for us consumers.

Unethical? After several generation of this if a consumer is silly enoug(for lack of a better word) to believe that the xx70/80/whatever is the high/top end is more down to them than to NVIDIA, this “merry dance” has been done long enough that the consumer SHOULD be wise enough by now.

 

[MooMoo444]

1080 is quite clearly high end. Baffles me when people claim otherwise. Presumably 1080Ti owners trying to feel better? It still maxes games almost two years after release. It's not the absolute best part, but it's just a part of the high end range.

Is like saying a sportscar isn't high end because there's a version with 20 more bhp. They are both fast.

 

[chroniclard]

Are people still arguing about high end/mid range.

 

[fowler002]

1080 is quite clearly high end. Baffles me when people claim otherwise. Presumably 1080Ti owners trying to feel better? It still maxes games almost two years after release. It's not the absolute best part, but it's just a part of the high end range.

Is like saying a sportscar isn't high end because there's a version with 20 more bhp. They are both fast.

You have a run of the mill sports car, then you have a super car then finally a hyper car, so the 1080 is the super car and the 1080ti is the hyper car(or is that the titan/xp?), the 1070/ti would be your run of the mill sports car

 

[MooMoo444]

It's like people forget there are cards below x60. If your scale starts at 1060 then yeah, 1080 might be considered mid range, but that's just daft. Surely you consider the whole range when making such a claim.

 

[Rroff]

1080 is quite clearly high end. Baffles me when people claim otherwise. Presumably 1080Ti owners trying to feel better? It still maxes games almost two years after release. It's not the absolute best part, but it's just a part of the high end range.

Is like saying a sportscar isn't high end because there's a version with 20 more bhp. They are both fast.

Well personally I have a 1070 and under no delusions - any other generation it would have been like the GTX460 768MB edition :s

It's like people forget there are cards below x60. If your scale starts at 1060 then yeah, 1080 might be considered mid range, but that's just daft. Surely you consider the whole range when making such a claim.

Nothing changed there - the odd generation aside - always been a range of cards - 400 series for instance you had the 405, 420, 430 and 440 and some odd cards between those - didn't make the 460 high end. The 460 editions beat the 285 by about the same as the 1070/1080 does the 980ti but you'd have been laughed out the door for calling it high end in any context even if the 470 and 480 didn't exist back then.

 

[D.P.]

Well personally I have a 1070 and under no delusions - any other generation it would have been like the GTX460 768MB edition :s



Nothing changed there - the odd generation aside - always been a range of cards - 400 series for instance you had the 405, 420, 430 and 440 and some odd cards between those - didn't make the 460 high end. The 460 editions beat the 285 by about the same as the 1070/1080 does the 980ti but you'd have been laughed out the door for calling it high end in any context even if the 470 and 480 didn't exist back then.

I just don't think comparisons to previous generations are that useful. Production costs and complexity are on a different playing filed altogether. The costs to produce new chips on new processes is increasing massively, so it only makes sense that die sizes may get smaller, prices increases, line-ups change. the market is also different, with more people willing to pay money for something like a Titan V.

Vega 64 is a large chip and the fastest AMD sells, so is it a high end GPU? Well for AMD it is, and the cost woudl suggest so, but you compare to previous AMD gpus the chip is not that big, and compared to nvidia it is several ties down form the top.

 

[crinkleshoes]

I just don't think comparisons to previous generations are that useful. Production costs and complexity are on a different playing filed altogether. The costs to produce new chips on new processes is increasing massively, so it only makes sense that die sizes may get smaller, prices increases, line-ups change. the market is also different, with more people willing to pay money for something like a Titan V.

Vega 64 is a large chip and the fastest AMD sells, so is it a high end GPU? Well for AMD it is, and the cost woudl suggest so, but you compare to previous AMD gpus the chip is not that big, and compared to nvidia it is several ties down form the top.

The Vega64 is AMD's top tier SKU, so it is AMD's "high end" chip... the disappointment is that they released it 2 years too late and it still doesn't even quite match up to the 1080, Nvidia's mid-tier SKU.

 

[Rroff]

I just don't think comparisons to previous generations are that useful. Production costs and complexity are on a different playing filed altogether. The costs to produce new chips on new processes is increasing massively, so it only makes sense that die sizes may get smaller, prices increases, line-ups change. the market is also different, with more people willing to pay money for something like a Titan V.

Vega 64 is a large chip and the fastest AMD sells, so is it a high end GPU? Well for AMD it is, and the cost woudl suggest so, but you compare to previous AMD gpus the chip is not that big, and compared to nvidia it is several ties down form the top.

I've taken most of that into consideration with the comments I've made.

Vega is a reasonably big chip - 486 mm2 - but somewhat disappointing - so it stands to reason it is about the best AMD could do under the circumstances on 14nm. It would be different if there was no seemingly better 16FF+ and the performance nVidia have been getting out of their chips.

 

[Caracus2k]

high-end
hʌɪˈɛnd/
adjective

1. denoting the most expensive of a range of products.

flagship
ˈflaɡʃɪp/
noun

1. the ship in a fleet which carries the commanding admiral.
   • the best or most important thing owned or produced by a particular organization.

Some people have some weird fetishes for die sizes, core counts and memory bus width here.

It's a fact that on release (a qualifier) that a GPU like the GTX 1080 was the high end flagship, mainstream product (another qualifier to deal with the Titan X 1st gen pascal which was arguably not so mainstream, only being available direct from nvidia on its own and with a far more limited market). In much the same way that the Titan Xp and 1080ti's could be described as nvidia's current mainstream high end flagship gpu's (with the same qualifier potentially somewhat added to the Titan Xp but the price difference at retail is rather negligible now vs the 1080ti and even more so with the Titan v what with it being a very non mainstream, expensive, exotic product, produced in very limited numbers)

 

[Kaapstad]

Some people have some weird fetishes for die sizes, core counts and memory bus width here.

It's a fact that on release (a qualifier) that a GPU like the GTX 1080 was the high end flagship, mainstream product (another qualifier to deal with the Titan X 1st gen pascal which was arguably not so mainstream, only being available direct from nvidia on its own and with a far more limited market). In much the same way that the Titan Xp and 1080ti's could be described as nvidia's current mainstream high end flagship gpu's (with the same qualifier potentially somewhat added to the Titan Xp but the price difference at retail is rather negligible now vs the 1080ti and even more so with the Titan v what with it being a very non mainstream, expensive, exotic product, produced in very limited numbers)

Titan V is actually produced in large numbers but most of them go on the market as V100 professional cards.

The Titan is the flagship of NVidia architecture ranges for gaming, it does not matter that it has to be obtained direct from NVidia.

When NVidia do launch their next gen cards for gaming (based on Ampere/Turing/Volta/whatever) the Titan V will still likely be selling and it will be very hard not to call it the current flagship as none of the next gen mid range gaming cards will pack 5120 SP, 2560 DP and 640 Tensor cores or anywhere near those specs.

 

[Caracus2k]

Titan V is actually produced in large numbers but most of them go on the market as V100 professional cards.

The Titan is the flagship of NVidia architecture ranges for gaming, it does not matter that it has to be obtained direct from NVidia.

When NVidia do launch their next gen cards for gaming (based on Ampere/Turing/Volta/whatever) the Titan V will still likely be selling and it will be very hard not to call it the current flagship as none of the next gen mid range gaming cards will pack 5120 SP, 2560 DP and 640 Tensor cores or anywhere near those specs.

Hence the qualifier 'mainstream' i will add a third 'consumer' which removes the other v100 cards.

Cores doesn't equal 'high end' or flagship.

In gpu terms, for consumers, the principle and almost exclusive metrics for these words are performance and price. The 1080 had more performance then the 980ti with less cores. I'm sure in time the same will be true of the Titan v surpassed with by a mainstream consumer gpu with less cores and a smaller die.

If the next gen `2080' was to surpass the titan v, performance wise, then the later, by definition, could no longer be the flagship consumer gpu and would only remain high end assuming the price stayed suitably high for the v and the 2080 came in more in line with nvidias other consumer gpu's

 

[Kaapstad]

So we're throwing in the performance of a previously unprecedented $3000 dollar nvida gpu (that can be used for gaming) as indicative of what the next gen of xx80 cards will bring?

Well I suppose if this were true it would make the titan z look like an even more ludicrous proposition.

The point is if NVidia decided to produce a GTX 2080 Ti based on Volta it would come with just the 5120 SP gaming cores and could quite easily retail £700, such a card would be about 35% faster than a GTX 1080 Ti.

Producing a huge chip with the 2560 DP and 640 Tensor cores is what makes the Titan V expensive.

 

[Caracus2k]

The point is if NVidia decided to produce a GTX 2080 Ti based on Volta it would come with just the 5120 SP gaming cores and could quite easily retail £700, such a card would be about 35% faster than a GTX 1080 Ti.

Producing a huge chip with the 2560 DP and 640 Tensor cores is what makes the Titan V expensive.

Perhaps you should have an argument with the poster above who thinks the 2080 (never mind the ti) is going to be circa 20-30% faster... But yet still not be a high end flagship card on release?

 

[Kaapstad]

Hence the qualifier 'mainstream' i will add a third 'consumer' which removes the other v100 cards.

Cores doesn't equal 'high end' or flagship.

In gpu terms, for consumers, the principle and almost exclusive metrics for these words are performance and price. The 1080 had more performance then the 980ti with less cores. I'm sure in time the same will be true of the Titan v surpassed with by a mainstream consumer gpu with less cores and a smaller die.

If the next gen `2080' was to surpass the titan v, performance wise, then the later, by definition, could no longer be the flagship consumer gpu and would only remain high end assuming the price stayed suitably high for the v and the 2080 came in more in line with nvidias other consumer gpu's

Brute power equates to flagship which for NVidia means the Titan of any given architecture.

If there was a poll "Is the GTX 1080 or Titan Xp the flagship card" I think it would be a very one sided result.

 

[Kaapstad]

Perhaps you should have an argument with the poster above who thinks the 2080 (never mind the ti) is going to be circa 20-30% faster... But yet still not be a high end flagship card on release?

It won't be the flagship as we all know NVidia will have bigger faster cards to come, not to mention the Titan V which is already available.

 

[Caracus2k]

Brute power equates to flagship which for NVidia means the Titan of any given architecture.

If there was a poll "Is the GTX 1080 or Titan Xp the flagship card" I think it would be a very one sided result.

A poll that can only be had in retrospect after both cards have been released one rather after the other? What's your point?

 

[Caracus2k]

It won't be the flagship as we all know NVidia will have bigger faster cards to come, not to mention the Titan V which is already available.

Then nothings ever a flagship GPU and wise.. as there is always something at least faster to come?

Bigger not equating to better when it comes to computer components with the reverse often being true!