Sexual assault?

[Thekwango]

Nope. I wouldn't have to do anything in such a situation because my partner can handle herself, and the person would know it was unwanted and unacceptable simply from her reaction alone.

She wouldn't laugh it off, but she definitely wouldn't need psychological counselling to deal with it.

I can't but help but feel that there's a culture emerging of "if ANYTHING happens and you don't like it, that's abuse/assault and you are a victim."

lucky you. I'm glad you in a relationship with an Amazonian warrior. your reply pretty much was word for word how I expected the first one to be. while obviously there will be women who would have been able to handle this in a different manner try and remember different people have different mental and physical strengths.

btw, has your partner been through such as situation before?

 

[spoffle]

lucky you. I'm glad you in a relationship with an Amazonian warrior. your reply pretty much was word for word how I expected the first one to be. while obviously there will be women who would have been able to handle this in a different manner try and remember different people have different mental and physical strengths.

btw, has your partner been through such as situation before?

Wait, you need to be an Amazonian warrior to use your words to tell someone to **** off? Yeah, I don't think so.

People do have different levels of physical and mental strength, but they absolutely cannot be used in such a situation as this as to determine whether someone is a victim of sexual assault or abuse.

Otherwise you might as well condone people being accused of threatening behaviour just because someone felt threatened by someone that was bigger and taller than them, just because they might have an inferiority complex.

My point is that if we want equality to actually work, you've got to be consistent in that people have equal rights and worth in such a situation.

If you feel uncomfortable by someone's behaviour enough that it's causing you mental distress, then you absolutely need to be saying something about it.

Someone being mentally weak is the equivalent of someone being forward and lacking social awareness.

This isn't a suggestion that being forward and socially crass is okay, just that it's a case of swings and roundabouts and feelings don't always reflect reality.

 

[Freakbro]

I think that's quite high, but accept your point.

As a separate point, I think we're calling things sexual violence which aren't. E.g. the example in this thread I would call 'inappropriate', not 'assault' or 'violence'. I'm not sure what the legal definitions actually are, just my impression of it all.

The legal definition of 'Sexual Assault' is very broad and people do jump to the wrong conclusion to it all the time. Especially when the term is being used against immigrants/refugees as people automatically equate 'Sexual Assault' as rape...hence they are always talking about a 'rape epidemic' sweeping across Europe.

Sexual Assault is basically any unwanted touching or sexual contact and it can or can not include penetration (rape) depending on definitions (ie: rape can be classified as a separate offence)

Generally, sexual assault is defined as unwanted sexual contact. The Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network defines sexual assault as "unwanted sexual contact that stops short of rape or attempted rape. This includes sexual touching and fondling."[4]

The National Center for Victims of Crime states:[5]

“ Sexual assault takes many forms including attacks such as rape or attempted rape, as well as any unwanted sexual contact or threats. Usually a sexual assault occurs when someone touches any part of another person's body in a sexual way, even through clothes, without that person's consent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_assault

So yes, Groping, which will include a pinch of the bum or boob is most definitely sexual assault.

 

[mmj_uk]

All of this #metoo victimhood is going to set the real feminism that courageous women fought for back decades, it's going to reach a point where men in business will not hire women to avoid the risk of being accused of (or unknowingly doing) something that ruins their life. She should just had the courage to slap him and put him in his place but instead he's been criminalised along the same lines of a rapist? good luck getting a job with a sexual assault conviction nobody will care to ask the details of what he actually did.

Sexual Assault is basically any unwanted touching

I rest my case, someone better invent a force field rather quickly.

 

[Freakbro]

All of this #metoo victimhood is going to set the real feminism that courageous women fought for back decades, it's going to reach a point where men in business will not hire women to avoid the risk of being accused of (or unknowingly doing) something that ruins their life. She should just had the courage to slap him and put him in his place but instead he's been criminalised along the same lines of a rapist? good luck getting a job with a sexual assault conviction nobody will care to ask the details of what he actually did.



I rest my case, someone better invent a force field rather quickly.

Well, it's any unwanted sexual touching, not just any touching.

ie : if I put my hand on her elbow or touch her arm when I'm talking to her I'm not going to be convicted of sexual assault

 

[Thekwango]

Wait, you need to be an Amazonian warrior to use your words to tell someone to **** off? Yeah, I don't think so. it was a facetious/joke type comment

People do have different levels of physical and mental strength, but they absolutely cannot be used in such a situation as this as to determine whether someone is a victim of sexual assault or abuse. fair response

Otherwise you might as well condone people being accused of threatening behaviour just because someone felt threatened by someone that was bigger and taller than them, just because they might have an inferiority complex. unlikely someone is going to feel threatened just because someone is bigger and taller than them. usually it requires threatening behaviour for that to happen first but I get what you are trying to say

My point is that if we want equality to actually work, you've got to be consistent in that people have equal rights and worth in such a situation. not 100% sure what equality (I assume you mean sexual equality?) has to do with this.

If you feel uncomfortable by someone's behaviour enough that it's causing you mental distress, then you absolutely need to be saying something about it. and if you're not mentally strong enough at the time to say something then that's tough luck is it? I happen to agree with you that ideally the individual should have the mental fortitude to speak up at the time such an incident like this occurs but if they don't (and many don't - I hazard a guess your partner is in a relative minority, but I could be wrong) there needs to be a way for them to deal with it after the event.

Someone being mentally weak is the equivalent of someone being forward and lacking social awareness. no it's not. just because someone doesn't feel emotionally strong enough to speak out at that immediate moment is not equivalent to someone lacking social awareness

This isn't a suggestion that being forward and socially crass is okay, just that it's a case of swings and roundabouts and feelings don't always reflect reality.

ultimately I get the feeling from some of the posts in his thread that the fact the woman didn't slap the guy/tell him to **** off/roundhouse kick him/whatever at the time it happened then as the moment has passed she should just let it go. that's wrong, wrong on so many levels.
you simply cannot randomly put your arm round someones shoulder and start kissing them - it is in no way socially acceptable or defensible. it isn't a little slip, it's not a spontaneous poking or prodding of someone while relating a story, it's not a tic, a habit or an involuntary action. it takes a concerted conscious effort.

if this guy, no previous or otherwise, thought that in that moment it was the correct thing to do or his sexual advances were wanted then he has a problem - they were talking about bees or some such nonsense. I can't imagine a scenario where a woman talking about a bee/wasp nest is going to be giving off an 'I want you' signal.

I'm genuinely saddened by most of the replies. I would have expected them to be more along the lines of....'don't want to end up on the sex offenders register, don't go round randomly kissing people on the shoulder neck and head' the only person in this story that has done anything wrong is the guy. his actions resulted in him being placed on the register, not the womans.

 

[mmj_uk]

Well, it's any unwanted sexual touching, not just any touching.

But in the current climate of #metoo it's whatever the 'victim' interperates it as, so even if it's completely accidental touching it can wind up with you being on the sexual offenders register. The main rule of #metoo is to believe the 'victim' 100% and destroy the accused.

 

[aardvark]

I'm genuinely saddened by most of the replies. I would have expected them to be more along the lines of....'don't want to end up on the sex offenders register, don't go round randomly kissing people on the shoulder neck and head' the only person in this story that has done anything wrong is the guy. his actions resulted in him being placed on the register, not the womans.

nobody is saying he isn't guilty and that he shouldn't have any punishment - but its not so black and white.
If he punched her he wouldn't be charged with attempted murder; the point is that the punishment is a bit excessive for the crime - why is that so hard for the 'you are condoning sexual assault' people to understand???

 

[Freakbro]

But in the current climate of #metoo it's whatever the 'victim' interperates it as, so even if it's completely accidental touching it can wind up with you being on the sexual offenders register. The main rule of #metoo is to believe the 'victim' 100% and destroy the accused.

Yea....No

 

[VincentHanna]

nobody is saying he isn't guilty and that he shouldn't have any punishment - but its not so black and white.
If he punched her he wouldn't be charged with attempted murder; the point is that the punishment is a bit excessive for the crime - why is that so hard for the 'you are condoning sexual assault' people to understand???

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-10852661

 

[Thekwango]

nobody is saying he isn't guilty and that he shouldn't have any punishment - but its not so black and white.
If he punched her he wouldn't be charged with attempted murder; the point is that the punishment is a bit excessive for the crime - why is that so hard for the 'you are condoning sexual assault' people to understand???

read some of the posts in here. seriously. short of telling her to shut up they couldn't be much more victim blaming. those posts saying she should have just told him to do one are for all intents and purposes saying he isn't guilty.

I fully understand you're view that it is excessive, for me though it's not excessive. it's also very black and white the fact the sex offenders register is poorly implemented and doesn't have definable 'levels' is an issue. however, the guy carried out a wholly unacceptable act - no he didn't rape and try to rape her but he initiated sexual contact where none was needed or wanted. that's sexual harassment. if the result of that is being placed on a register, tough luck. that's on him. he's not on it for life, i think it says he is on it for a year. nothing excessive about it.

it's the sex offenders register thing that I think has got a lot of people ruffled. the theory behind it fine it's the implementation and understanding of it that is the problem. most people hear sex offenders register they automatically think, child abuser or rapist. which in this guys case is obviously not the case - a lot of people on the register are not child abusers or rapists. there's going to be this guy and similar people who are not the sexual predatory monsters most folk think end up on the register. it's only your view of the sex offenders register that makes you think the sentence is excessive.

 

[Thekwango]

But in the current climate of #metoo it's whatever the 'victim' interperates it as, so even if it's completely accidental touching it can wind up with you being on the sexual offenders register. The main rule of #metoo is to believe the 'victim' 100% and destroy the accused.

you are very unlikely to end up on the sex offenders register for accidentally touching someone, unless you accidentally touch them with your penis

 

[200sols]

you are very unlikely to end up on the sex offenders register for accidentally touching someone, unless you accidentally touch them with your penis

or your in Dubai

 

[Freakbro]

you are very unlikely to end up on the sex offenders register for accidentally touching someone

Imagine, everyone using the tube would be locked up every day!

unless you accidentally touch them with your penis

Though, I guess that happens on the tube too

 

[MikeTheNative]

I would be interested to read an article on this by a different sauce. The daily mail article reads as though his mum had written it.

 

[Nasher]

It's a bit over the line if it's a stranger, but it's not really sexual assault.

I've seen plenty of women slapping guys arses etc in pubs/clubs, would they go on a sex offender's register for that? probably not...

There is a quite a witch hunt against men atm, especially white men with false accusations flying all over the place. Quite a lot of people seem desperate to join the "MeToo" club.

 

[FoxEye]

you are very unlikely to end up on the sex offenders register for accidentally touching someone, unless you accidentally touch them with your penis

Putting your arm around a woman's shoulder these days is sexual harassment. Heck even a hug could be reported as sexual harassment today.

Admittedly that's no so "accidental", but it could potentially be done without even thinking about it, as for some it wouldn't even cross their minds that they were assaulting anybody.

It has now reached the stage where women can initiate hugs on men whenever they wish, but not vice versa. Because any unwanted physical contact from a man to a woman is very much now defined as sexual assault. Or regular assault.

 

[Freakbro]

It's a bit over the line if it's a stranger, but it's not really sexual assault.

Not by what the average person thinks sexual assault means, but by the law it is

I've seen plenty of women slapping guys arses etc in pubs/clubs, would they go on a sex offender's register for that? probably not...

They proably would if the guy made the complaint and pursued it.....but then, generally we don't mind being sexually assaulted by women

As tongue in cheek that comment is, there also isn't the same threat level when a woman does something like that to a man than vice versa. if the man really doesn't want it it's unlikely the woman is then going to force him further using strength and/or violence.

 

[FoxEye]

It's a bit over the line if it's a stranger, but it's not really sexual assault.

I've seen plenty of women slapping guys arses etc in pubs/clubs, would they go on a sex offender's register for that? probably not...

That's because society is now happily embracing the dual standard of women being able to initiate physical contact whenever they desire, but men always dancing on thin ice. Men will still need to make the initial advances, but will also needed to be psychic to know ahead of time if the woman will be happy with it or not.

Give it a few more years and I'm sure we'll be in a fine mess indeed. Every male on the planet will be a sexual predator

 

[Nasher]

Not by what the average person thinks sexual assault means, but by the law it is



They proably would if the guy made the complaint and pursued it.....but then, generally we don't mind being sexually assaulted by women

As tongue in cheek that comment is, there also isn't the same threat level when a woman does something like that to a man than vice versa. if the man really doesn't want it it's unlikely the woman is then going to force him further using strength and/or violence.

But if the law is balanced. It needs to be taken seriously both ways, surely?