Police rolling out technology which allows them to raid a victim's phone without a warrant

But sure, continue your paranoid ramblings into how we're being driven into a police state, despite the massive cuts in funding, resources and overall support.

Britain is the most surveilled nation on earth. The 'Snoopers Charter' is readily readable from the governments own sources. If you don't think that Britain is a police state you've got your head in the clouds.
 
So by going forward to the police with information on your phone they take everything on it to look through.
This will increase crime, not reduce it.

Police are more interested in reducing crime reporting and closing cases than actually investigating crimes to their natural conclusion.

Why do you think they surveil social media so heavily looking for supposed hate crimes? it's easier to meet targets that way. On paper it looks like they're being tough on crime when in reality they've made up a bunch of laughable crimes which are easier to prosecute, whilst the country is going down the pan with actual physical/violent crimes on the increase.

It's probably the same story with all of the men being convicted of rape because of police withholding evidence that might clear them, they're more interested in meeting targets than enforcing the law justly.

Government shouldn't be enforcing targets, if they want crime to be reduced either increase resources or get rid of all of the nonsense "muh feelings" crimes that are severely draining what resources they do have.
 
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dont see the problem unless you have something to hide, i doubt they care about your dodgy conversations with tinder / grindr (or however you spell it) people! much less any business dealings
 
So with wireless charging now standard and crap like this I'm thinking maybe epoxying up the usb port is a sensible step?

They would just open your phone up and read from behind the usb port, so the epoxy job is useless.

All the people I know up to no good use really rubbish phones that can be launched at any sign of trouble.
 
Don't give me that, it was one man and the officer was tried for manslaughter (though acquitted by a jury)

A police state would not bother with a trial of the policeman.
 

Oh dear how weak....

Ian Tomlinson wasn't 'opposing the goverment' on the day he died and although its likely the relevant officers actions contributed to his death it couldn't be proved that the officers actions were the sole or a significant contributory factor to the cause of death to the requisite criminal standard (beyond reasonable doubt) the police TSG officers actions (a shove and strike with a batt on on the leg) were certainly wrong in the circumstances but hardly the hallmark of a police state murder now....
 
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A police state is where the police control the public so the government stays in power.
We are in a police state.
If only the government hadn't repeatedly cut funding to the police so there's more people working a night shift in the 24-hour McDonald's than there are officers per LPA.

99.9% of police officers hate the current government.
 
They don't seem to have done well with those recently, "accidentally" failing to disclose them etc...
This is the whole point to those disclosure issues. If you download the whole contents of the phone, it's difficult to know what evidence is there that has not been analysed and therefore disclosed to the defence. That's not malicious, that due to not having the time to do a full analysis.

just to come back to this point a rather timely story on the front page of the Times details how in plenty of cases it quite blatantly is deliberate on the part of the police:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-are-trained-to-hide-vital-evidence-cnfdbm6jz

The scale of the failure by police and prosecutors to disclose vital evidence in criminal cases is exposed today in documents showing that such behaviour is routine and deliberate.

A dossier seen by The Times reveals a commonly held view that the defence is not entitled to see all the evidence. It discloses the tactics used to stop it being handed over, with officers in at least one force apparently trained in how to avoid making available material that might undermine their case.

The file draws on the reports of 14 focus groups with the police, and others with prosecutors and judges, as well as a survey of prosecutors.

The findings come after this newspaper reported on a series of rape cases that collapsed at the eleventh hour when evidence was passed to defence lawyers. The comments in the dossier include one prosecutor saying: “In even quite serious cases, officers have admitted to deliberately withholding sensitive material from us and they frequently approach us only a week before trial. Officers are reluctant to investigate a defence or take statements that might assist the defence or undermine our case.”

Among the comments from police focus groups was: “If you don’t want the defence to see it, then [evidence] goes on the MG6D” — a reference to the list of sensitive unused material to which the defence does not have access. In another focus group, an inspector noted that police “have been trained to put items on there that they do not want disclosed to the defence”. This tactic was confirmed by prosecutors. One recorded comment was that “officers put undermining material on the MG6D list to hide”.

In one report on focus groups with judges, the inspectors note a judge saying: “There seems to be an idea that the defence is not entitled to see things but where the defence press matters, this yields results.”

Prosecutors are also at fault. Sometimes this is because of what one called a “hugely excessive and complex caseload, insufficient time to do the job, poor-quality and slow digital systems, poor-quality investigation by police [and] wrong prioritising of objectives by the organisation”.

The dossier was obtained by the Centre for Criminal Appeals, a charity, under a freedom of information request to the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) Inspectorate and the Inspectorate of Constabulary, which collated the unpublished comments when preparing a joint report on disclosure of evidence last year.

It makes clear that the failure to hand over evidence that may undermine the prosecution case is often deliberate and comes at a time when the criminal justice system is under scrutiny. Last year The Times revealed that Liam Allan, a 22-year-old student, spent almost two years on bail and was put on trial on 12 charges of sexual violence because the police failed to hand over text messages from the alleged victim that would have exonerated him. His lawyer secured the messages and he was cleared. Other similar cases subsequently came to light.

Alison Saunders, the director of public prosecutions, and Jeremy Wright, the attorney-general, began inquiries into disclosure failings after the trials failed. It emerged yesterday that Ms Saunders’s contract as DPP was not to be renewed — which she said was through her own choice.

Last week the CPS and police inspectors gave evidence to the Commons justice select committee. Kevin McGinty, chief inspector of the CPS, said disclosure failings were the single most frequent cause in the steady stream of miscarriages of justice. He described a culture in which disclosure was seen not as part of an investigation but “more of an administrative exercise”.

The Centre for Criminal Appeals has submitted evidence on disclosure to the justice select committee along with the Cardiff Law School Innocence Project, urging the creation of an independent agency to deal with the issue.
 
just to come back to this point a rather timely story on the front page of the Times details how in plenty of cases it quite blatantly is deliberate on the part of the police:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-are-trained-to-hide-vital-evidence-cnfdbm6jz

The Times don't know what they are on about.....

The scale of the failure by police and prosecutors to disclose vital evidence in criminal cases is exposed today in documents showing that such behaviour is routine and deliberate.

And we don’t even have to get past the first sentence to demonstrate that the Times doesn’t understand what the hell they are talking about………….

“Evidence” (in terms of usage in the criminal justice system in England and Wales) is the material provided to a jury, magistrate or lay panel during a court trial be it via either live or video link (in the latter case sometimes pre-recorded) witness testimony, physical exhibits, agreed read statements or written agreements betweendefence and prosecution.
The Times should be referring to (unused) material as this is any other material collected during the investigation and prosecution of a case that isn’t “evidence”.

A dossier seen by The Times reveals a commonly held view that the defence is not entitled to see all the evidence. It discloses the tactics used to stop it being handed over, with officers in at least one force apparently trained in how to avoid making available material that might undermine their case.
The police do not have any duty to disclose material in this fashion to the defence. The Police have a duty to disclose any ‘relevant’, unusedmaterial to the prosecutor (The Crown Prosecution Case - CPS) and it is for the CPS and the CPS alone to make decisions on disclosure of unused material to the defence. The defence are not, by law, entitled to see all of the unused material they are only entitled to certain items some of which they are entitled to under certain provisions but generally the terms are set out by the Criminal Procedure and Investigations Act 1996

The prosecutor must—
(a) disclose to the accused any prosecution material which has not previously been disclosed to the accused and which might reasonably be considered capable of underminingthe case for the prosecution against the accused or of assisting the case for the accused, or
(b) give to the accused a written statementthat there is no material of a description mentioned in paragraph (a).

There are even some exceptions to this where the prosecution can apply, via an ex parte public interest immunity court hearing, to withhold sensitive material from the defence in a trial, on the grounds that to do so would be against the public or national interest.


Among the comments from police focus groups was: “If you don’t want the defence to see it, then [evidence] goes on the MG6D” — a reference to the list of sensitive unused material to which the defence does not have access. In another focus group, an inspector noted that police “have been trained to put items on there that they do not want disclosed to the defence”. This tactic was confirmed by prosecutors. Onerecorded comment was that “officers put undermining material on the MG6D list to hide”.

The police are not ‘hiding’ unused material by placing in on the MG6D as this is seen by the CPS and it is for the CPS (the ‘prosecutor’) to make decisions re disclose to the defence! What a load of uniformed nonsense from the Times!

The whole point of the MG6D is to have a place to list ‘sensitive’ unused material for review by the CPS. ‘Sensitive’ material, by law, includes ‘material relating to the private life of a witness’ (bottom of Para 6.15) which most definitely would (for example) include the unedited contents of a complete download of a victim or witnesses mobile phone! Such a download would very likely contain a plethora of detail about the private life of the owner of the device.
 
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OK fine, the times newspaper knows nothing but the people they've quoted presumably do - I'll quote a couple of snippets again:

"The comments in the dossier include one prosecutor saying: “In even quite serious cases, officers have admitted to deliberately withholding sensitive material from us and they frequently approach us only a week before trial. Officers are reluctant to investigate a defence or take statements that might assist the defence or undermine our case.”
[...]

Kevin McGinty, chief inspector of the CPS, said disclosure failings were the single most frequent cause in the steady stream of miscarriages of justice. He described a culture in which disclosure was seen not as part of an investigation but “more of an administrative exercise”.

It seems like the police and CPS perhaps do have a problem with disclosure regardless of your opinion of the Times newspaper
 
OK fine, the times newspaper knows nothing but the people they've quoted presumably do - I'll quote a couple of snippets again:

It seems like the police and CPS perhaps do have a problem with disclosure regardless of your opinion of the Times newspaper

Kevin McGinty, chief inspector of the CPS, said disclosure failings were the single most frequent cause in the steady stream of miscarriages of justice. He described a culture in which disclosure was seen not as part of an investigation but “more of an administrative exercise”.

By definition a miscarriage of justice is likely to involve a failure (malicious or otherwise) of disclosure of material to the defence ... Talk about stating the bloody obvious! The major other example would be a witness lying in their evidence.

Disclosure isn't part of the investigation and it is largely admistrative.

A criminal investigation has to, by law, look at lines of enquiry that may both support and undermine a case and police must obtain and retain any material which may be relevant for disclosure purposes but the process of disclosure of unused material is an admistrative one.

And the other comment doesn't stand up to scrutiny with regard to the rest of the article..... where the Times claims Police officers are 'hiding'.... "evidence" (which its not.... its unused material) by placing it on the Mg6D form.... A form given by police to the CPS for the explicit purpose of review of (sensitive), relevant, unused material!

All you have shown is the Times can pick out two quotes from some people connected to the criminal justice system to try and support an otherwise misleading, incorrect article.
 
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OK so do you believe there are currently any issues with disclosure at the moment?

Is the current inquiry and the halting of all pending rape cases not being done with good reason?

(aren't you supporting the "Cultural Marxists" in the Police and CPS here? :p )
 
OK so do you believe there are currently any issues with disclosure at the moment?

Is the current inquiry and the halting of all pending rape cases not being done with good reason?

(aren't you supporting the "Cultural Marxists" in the Police and CPS here? :p )

There have been some cases where disclosure has been a particular issue and there is a wider, more general, issue for the prosecution in dealing with the volume and complexity of social media and modern phone data (as well as other digital devices).

So no I don't beleive that there are no issues with disclosure at the moment because there evidently is. This however doesn't appear to have much if anything to do with marxism (cultural or otherwise) as I am able to comment on things that aren't related to this particular aspect of politics.

None of this changes my view on the Times article which is that it was both incorrect and willfully misleading in its reporting. Because the paper claimed that use, by the police, of a sensitive schedule (mg6d) to list unused material (not evidence as they incorrectly referred to it as) was the police 'hiding' material and by implication acting incorrectly when this is not the case.
 
A police state is where the police control the public so the government stays in power.
We are in a police state.

So far off the mark it's both hilarious and worrying. In what way is our underfunded, under-resourced, unarmed police service controlling the public for a government that it doesn't support and which doesn't support it?
 
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