Not discriminating is discrimination
- Thread starter SlyReaper
- Start date
How are Jews and Muslims inherently disadvantaged such that they need measures to be able to use facilities and services equally with non Muslims and Jews....?
More nonsense.
I think there's a question as to whether it's a benefit to all for these things to move quickly. I've not had to organise a funeral, but people I know who have, I don't think they would have wanted to be rushing it through.
But I'm glad you now follow the point I was making about wait times, whether you agree or not
Because they have emotional and spiritual investment in a fast burial, whereas others don't. or are much less so
I mean, the whole process of dealing with dead relatives' funerals etc is one of 'feelings', and so it seems ok that there should be sensitivity for, and room to assist with, those whose feelings are affected differently.
I think there's a question as to whether it's a benefit to all for these things to move quickly. I've not had to organise a funeral, but people I know who have, I don't think they would have wanted to be rushing it through.
But I'm glad you now follow the point I was making about wait times, whether you agree or not
So you are accepting your are wrong?
Yes you can reduce a waiting list reducing waits overall.
But if you offer prefertial treatment to one group by allowing them to jump ahead of the rest then that will mean the rest will still be processed slower then the preferred group even if the non preferred groups wait time is the same or less then before (when the waiting list was longer).
The benefit of the reduced waiting list has benefitted some more than others!
Feels before reals! How about a non islamic or Jewish family who want to get on with burying their relative? Why does being a jew or Muslim trump that?
Some Jewish people feel strongly about allowing grown men to suck babies penises! (see above) do they get a pass aswell because of their 'emotional and spiritual investment' in that?
I would have no issue with a system which considered a wide range of objective factors....
I. E Bill dies but has no direct family and only some other elderly cousins.... He can go to the back of the que vs another person who has a lot of close family who want to get on with a ceremony.
I. E Bill dies but has no direct family and only some other elderly cousins.... He can go to the back of the que vs another person who has a lot of close family who want to get on with a ceremony.
Soldato
- Joined
- 3 Jun 2005
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I don’t think you fully understand some of the terms and concepts you’re using, or how they apply to this specific situation.
Before:
Jew body processing time: 5 days
Muslim body processing time: 5 days
Other body processing time: 5 days
After:
Jew body processing time: 2 days
Muslim body processing time: 2 days
Other body processing time: 8 days
You have to live in OppositeLand to think equality has increased.
As someone already alluded to Orwell....
Equality.... Where some are more 'equal' then others!
Well this is a different argument. I was arguing against those saying that this idea of fasttracking some was bad because it mean non-jews/muslims suffered by being slowed down to allow it. My point was that they didn't suffer as they were no worse off under a fasttrack system.
I don't really have strong feelings about the fairness of offering such fasttracking to some over others. It seems to me that it recognises a need among some groups for an expedited system, and also recognises that such tailoring can't be offered to everyone. I'm not keen on the jealousy aspect of the counter-argument.
I've already addressed, over and over and over, that processing time for the wider cohort won't increase. Those fasttracked groups have greater need in this instance, and I don't see the harm to the rest, beyond self-righteousness and jealousy.
We are going round in circles.....
People (who are not fasttracked) will always suffer relative to others who are fasttracked in a given system.....
The sole example you have tried to provide involved you shortening the overall waiting list from 50 to 40 (at an increased expense to the service) just so you could say the non Jews and muslims still took the same 10 days to get to the front of the que (that used to be 50 long) as they only advanced four per day and not five as they did previously.
Of course with that now 40 long que if you removed the discrimination in favour of Jews and muslims the non Jews and muslims would get through in eight days not ten!
So they simply have not benefitted from the overall waiting list being reduced!
Soldato
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Inequality that you're ok with is still inequality. I prefer equality for all.
Don't start that again mate!
If the Jews and Muslims went back into the main queue, then it would bump the queue back up to 50
Don't start that again mate!
If the Jews and Muslims went back into the main queue, then it would bump the queue back up to 50
Where to you get this 40 from?
Where do you get this que of, presumably, 10 Jews and Muslims from?
If they are being fasttracked there won't be any more then one jew or Muslim in the example given after a few days when the backlog of existing Jews and muslims is cleared! There will still be fifty people in the que if the work rate has remained the same!
If the work rate temporarily increases to get the overall waiting list down to 40 then the non jews and muslims won't have benefitted from this as shown!
If you reduce the waiting list even further the non Muslims and Jews will still not be getting the full benefit of the reduction as without discrimination they would advance at a faster rate down what is left of the que!
Soldato
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I'm pretty sure he's trolling at this point.
The fact it went to the High Court?
The fact that a coroner was operating a completely fair and non-discriminatory system yet this was ruled discriminatory and unlawful by judges?
Whether the knock-on effect impacts people is irrelevant, by giving in to religious beliefs those beliefs gain legitimacy, regardless of how absurd, bizarre or plainly offensive they are. Why is female genital mutilation illegal in this country but not Jewish circumcision?
Two very different things, really.
Although I agree that neither should be allowed to be performed on minors.
Well that's true although FGM can be (and often is) worse then having the end of your penis cut of by an untrained (medically) mohel who then sucks on what's left........
It can be far less serious as defined as type '4' FGM which is still illegal in the UK!
I would take piercing or pricking of my penis over having my foreskin cut of by an amateur who then went on to suck on it..... If I had to make the choice.