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GPU prices go boom

You also have to remember that all miners have an active interest in advocating for crypto.

It's like asking a corn farmer if you should eat corn.

The more miners hype and shill for cryptocurrencies, the more they are "worth", and hence the more profit in mining the coins.

Thus why asking a miner if crypto is "a good thing" guarantees you to get only one answer.

And why miners have to attack any viewpoint that says mining/crypto is "a bad thing". Self-interest, basically.

P.S. You didn't answer the basic question: how long is the current ROI for a 580 or a 1070? Measured in under a year, or more than? With UK energy prices being far from cheap, and card prices being well over RRP, it's got to be at least 6 months.

e: LOLs, using NiceHash calculator, a 1070Ti makes about £17 profit per month at 14p/Kwh.

£400/17 = 23.5 months for ROI.

Wow. That's awful.

e2: Even in the US where leccy is cheaper, mining something like Zcash, ROI is over 12 months. And you guys are still buying cards? Why?

You don't do "business" like that. You could, for example, buy some hardware to mine a coin that is very profitable, sell it and buy one that is more stable, higher value, like Bitcoin, which you can turn it into fiat. You ride the wave, trading, switching after a while the mined coin, etc. You don't sell your coins when they're low in value (if you have an older, "proven" coin). You sit on it and sell it later. Of course, not all the miners have the patience, time or skill to do it. So even if you have a coin that is not worth at the moment that much to mine, you have other options and for some that understand the "business" well, most likely is still quite ok to buy more hardware as they have the "know-how" to make it profitable.
 
Yeah, they are welcome to them. Since for the miners £400 is "cheap" for a 1070, and why are we complaining? A 580 at £300 is a steal, for the amount of hashes it generates, right?
It's not actually cheap for mining, it's availability that would make it desirable to miners at that price. I.E a Vega 56 costs 25% more but generates a lot more than 25% more revenue.
 
25 cards, well that's £7000 or so plus the rest of the 2 rigs your running them in. I bet your electricity bill is quite a fair chunk as well, but I suppose you would have saved on heating.
So the question is how much of that £11,295 is actual profit, after spending out, probably 8 grand in initial start up, plus running costs?

This Isn't the only coin I've mined since building my rigs. I just chose MSR as an example as its about to fork due to ASIC mining... But even if it was, in 3 months its paid for so lets say earnings were halved for the next 3 months thats still nearly £2000 pm.. And thats not including selling and trading in other coins As described above
 
Except they're only worth anything if you cash them out into fiat (if you can). Which apparently isn't always easy, with some exchanges not allowing cashing out to fiat.

And that brings us to another point... there are crypto coins being "invented" every single day (almost). Many are just copy/pasting Litecoin (etc) code and changing a couple vars in the source. Heck there was a 12 year old in the news recently for doing just that, and "inventing" a new coin.

They can't all be "worth" something; they can't all end up as viable currencies. There are hundreds of altcoins already. Some have already failed; indeed some crypto projects have been funded and then collapsed, with investors losing everything. Quite recently in fact. Others will be valueless in the long term, or never attain any value in the first place.

Yet many, many people are mining these worthless coins in the hope that they become valuable. At which point the theory is they will have mined thousands of them and thus be millionaires.

Beyond that, as you just said, the "worth" of the coins can fluctuate wildly between starting a post and finishing it. They are bloomin' useless as actual currencies, and most people who accept money in exchange for goods or services no longer accept any kind of crypto. That's just fact. Let's not forget that people have already lost vast sums the last time crypto "crashed", and the evidence suggests it will continue to overshoot in both directions, reaching highs and then crashing to new lows. If you "hodl" you always run the risk that the price tomorrow crashes to a point where you've lost money, either in buying currency or in buying hardware.

Which suggests that they very much are a ponzi scheme as (many) economists have come forward to suggest. A ponzi scheme based on "pump and dump" principles, and of evangelising crypto to get injections of cash from newbies. Of course miners/crytpo advocates don't trust bankers or economists or the established world order. Unless they're cashing out their *coins into fiat. You know, to actually have something they can use to buy things.

The whole thing is purely a vehicle for speculators, traders, and fraudsters. As currencies these are non-starters. You can't spend them for starters! Only turn them to fiat.

But assuming you do manage to cash out into fiat (which is actually worth something), then so be it. I still wouldn't get into crypto even if you could guarantee I'd make the sorts of figures you're suggesting (although I'm afraid I'm incredibly dubious that you made £11,000+ in three months with 25 cards. Beyond dubious.).

e: Looking closely at MSR it perfectly encapsulates the joke that is crypto.

8 Feb: "worth" 7c ($0.07)
14 Apr: "worth" 20c
28 Apr: "worth" $2
1 May: "worth" $1

Crazy. MSR is obviously a fairly new coin (I've never heard of it). OK, here it is, "invented" Sep 2017. Price until very recently: a few cents.

So you've done exactly what I described above. Mined a new coin that was valueless in the hope that it gained value. Some speculators came along and "pumped" this new altcoin to $2, at which point they all sold and the value crashed back to $1.

This isn't clever, it's manipulating hype. Pump and dump. Coin will probably be worthless in the long run, along with most of the others.


I've read a fair bit about crypto. Mostly on its negative qualities, which is not something miners like to talk about. I actually have a fairly decent grasp on what's going on here, and it's not virtuous. It *is* a get rich quick scheme, and it *is* based on making money by having a few winners and a lot of losers who get left "holding the bags" to use the lingo.

e2: It's basically the stock market on steroids, with volatility levels that are off the charts. But unlike stocks and shares in companies producing useful outputs, crypto is a worthless "token" that only has a value if we attach a value to it.


You can read all you like but until you do something you truly don't know how or whats involved..

Again you just dont understand or know how this works..

Stocks and shares.. I love that one too.

So exactly what does your 1 share in microsoft actually give you. Nothing..Yes your buying into something "real" (Well real as in a piece of paper.. You cant actually go and take your little piece of microsoft out of their offices or take a little bit of the code for Windows)....But in itself it has no real value except the value that man puts on it himself. Go buy a share in microsoft then try and walk around their office's.... That share is worth nothing. Until you sell it....Sound familiar??

I'm not in this for any other reason than to make money...Chances are thats the same reason you go to work everyday..(I'm assuming you work).

Why would you have heard of MSR your not involved in Crypto enough. How did I mine a coin that was worthless...It was worth less than today but it still had a value, be that value 1p or £1 it still has a value...Nothing in this world truly has value other than food, water and shelter. EVERYTHING else the value is dictated to by the value that man puts on it...I think you may be confusing value with usage. But by that token YOU have no value because I have no use for you...

I understand you being dubious about my earnings but that, Again is because you don't understand how all this works.. You think you do...But you DON'T. I've made a lot more than £11k in 3 months. But again you wont understand how so I wont waste my time explaining it to you...

As a currency of course I can spend it.. I spent around $15000 USD worth yesterday ( I'm using USD as an example as you don't understand crypto properly) and in return I got back more than $15000. Cashing out of crypto is very easy nowadays with lloyds bank now onboard. I can cash out within around 20 mins or so... It'll take me about that time to get to my nearest ATM for physical money. Again your "Which apparently isn't always easy, with some exchanges not allowing cashing out to fiat." You've read one thing and applied it to another.. because you don't know...Your stating facts etc on things you DON'T know... You would have got on a lot better in this thread had you asked questions instead of barking "facts"...

You keep comparing Crypto coins to FIAT.. All coins are worth something as no-one will sell for 0 so at worst it'll be worth the lowest denominator. Unless the coin/blockchain in question disappears .. But that is the same as FIAT. How many currencies around the world have collapsed and vanished.

Please back up your FACT that "most people who accept money in exchange for goods or services no longer accept any kind of crypto"
Your going to need to show how many people used to accept Crypto and how many of THOSE people no longer do.. You see being in this industry I can see how many MORE people/Companies are starting to add BTC and others as payment.. But YOU wont see that with you NOT knowing how this all works...

Again, You think you have a fairly decent grasp on whats going on, But you don't! Ever heard the phrase a little bit of knowledge can be dangerous...I think that sums it up...When you know more, you'll know you know very little now.
 
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I'm still not too fussed about upgrading especially in the current market.

This is position I am in, GPU's prices are to high to even be interested, Nvidia has taken shady practice to all new levels and AMD are to slow at releasing anything exciting. GPU space has never been so dull imho. Luckily CPU market has heated up a bit, but I am a graphics whore, where are the exciting graphics cards? Or even the games to take advantage of them? xD

Oh well in the meantime God Of War on PS4 Pro ftw !! xD
 
So exactly what does your 1 share in microsoft actually give you. Nothing..Yes your buying into something "real" (Well real as in a piece of paper.. You cant actually go and take your little piece of microsoft out of their offices or take a little bit of the code for Windows)....But in itself it has no real value except the value that man puts on it himself. Go buy a share in microsoft then try and walk around their office's.... That share is worth nothing. Until you sell it....Sound familiar??

Shares in a healthy company will usually pay out regular dividends and will often have other benefits attached - if you own enough shares you totally could go wander around a company offices :p

While I get your point about assignment of value what he says isn't really wrong - much of the money made in crypto is speculative and comes from being ahead of the game and you can much more quickly end up sitting on dead paper than typical of the stock market.
 
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Discuss by all means, but not like this, not here...:)
Better suited to the part of the forum which was purpose built with all the modern conveniences for exactly this level of conversation
 
Shares in a healthy company will usually pay out regular dividends and will often have other benefits attached - if you own enough shares you totally could go wander around a company offices :p

Come on I said 1 share....lol in microsoft as well, before anyone jumps in with I have 1 share in my company and I can do what I want....lol
 
So exactly what does your 1 share in microsoft actually give you. Nothing..Yes your buying into something "real" (Well real as in a piece of paper.. You cant actually go and take your little piece of microsoft out of their offices or take a little bit of the code for Windows)....But in itself it has no real value except the value that man puts on it himself. Go buy a share in microsoft then try and walk around their office's.... That share is worth nothing. Until you sell it....Sound familiar??

  • The right to a dividend payment in proportion to the number of shares owned, no matter how small.
  • The right to vote at Annual General Meetings and express approval or disapproval of management teams and structures.
  • The right to information on the company in which you own a share, such as financials, strategies and politics.
Comparing cryptocurrencies to stocks is absolutely deluded. One of them is a ponzi scheme floating in cyber space and the other is an active ownership of a financial and physical entity, no matter how small.

If we're going to say they're similar, I'll ask you this - What's your opinion on the current upper management of Bitcoin?

Oh, wait.
 
Gigabyte GeForce GTX 670 Windforce 3X 2048MB £340 May 2012 !! 6 years with the same GPU, thats the longest I've gone between upgrades.

http://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-GTX-670-vs-Nvidia-GTX-1060-6GB/2181vs3639 = somewhat faster

I'm still not too fussed about upgrading especially in the current market. Waiting to see about 1160 / 1170 pricing or preorder pricing (which might be insane). https://youtu.be/mJFV3X4cxzM

I looked at my previous orders last night too to try and justify it, I spent 370 on the evga 670 phantom in 2012 then 251 on the 970 in Nov 2014. Considering it's still holding up relatively well apart from in vr then I've had great value out of it. Like you I'm waiting now, I can't justify a minimum of £400 Vs performance gain
 
lol someone got owned.

What by that post above...Not even in the slightest!!





  • The right to a dividend payment in proportion to the number of shares owned, no matter how small.
  • The right to vote at Annual General Meetings and express approval or disapproval of management teams and structures.
  • The right to information on the company in which you own a share, such as financials, strategies and politics.
Comparing cryptocurrencies to stocks is absolutely deluded. One of them is a ponzi scheme floating in cyber space and the other is an active ownership of a financial and physical entity, no matter how small.

If we're going to say they're similar, I'll ask you this - What's your opinion on the current upper management of Bitcoin?

Oh, wait.

There are comparisons to stocks and shares and crypto... Both exist in cyberspace.. Both are tradeable and the value of both is only as much as someone else is prepared to pay...

Upper management of bitcoin. Come on really... Ok so Mr Gates drops dead tomorrow what do you think will happen to the share price....What do you think will happen to bitcoin if the largest holder dropped dead.
They are chalk and cheese is some respects but they are also very similar in others.





And what exactly will the layman with his one share do with that information... Bugger all I'd guess.

Not all shares have voting rights

If its a PLC then I'm sure ALL that info is available isn't it

So a dividend. Exactly how much was that worth for your 1 Microsoft share. found it 2017 was 42c...... there are coins out there that also pay a "Dividend"

Its all in the very early stages, And some things definitely need to be ironed out. but cryptocurrency in one form or another is here to stay.


So would you say a stock backed with Gold or USD legitimate then?
 
I'm getting tempted now as the EVGA 1080TI FTW3 can be had for £846 now.


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