Free speech not allowed

LOAM said:
People generally? I'm not sure my imagination stretches that far. Unless of course by generally, you mean the ones they spared from execution and imprisonment (which wasn't even the case either).

Unless of course you meant for the benefit of the party then sure, they were socialist towards themselves.
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Isn't the above applicable to at least some (non nationalistic) socialist/ 'communist' goverments as well?

The Ussr and China under Stalin and Mao respectively being examples of this with the 'communist' Khmer Rouge being another glaring example.

Whether or not the Nazi's were 'socialist' in the same way as the Marxist socialists or not the fact remain that the Nazi's were a collectivist party (subject to racial/national criteria rather then class like the Marxist socialists) and as such the Nazi's had more in common with the contemporary Marxist socialists the they did with the rest of the western democracies at the time.

The fact that the Marxists and nazi's fought one another is irrelevant to their otherwise relative similarity.

.... To an outsider Shia and Sunni Islam (same for Catholic and C of E) appear very similiar but they can be bitterly opposed to one another.

All 'socialist' parties (of any sort) inevitable tend to gravitate to the 'people' becoming synonymous with only thoose favoured by the ruling party.
 
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VincentHanna said:
This is me when people try to argue that the Nazis were left-wing because they had ''socialist' in their party name.

https://media.giphy.com/media/MXApm8NraO5Jm/giphy.gif
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You have to define what you mean by 'Socialist' and 'left wing' for that to make any sense.....

There has never been an actual Socialist state by the dictionary definition because it would not work as the means of production and distribution can't be 'owned and regulated by the community as a whole'....

There will always need to be a ruling party and their will always be dissidents who don't agree with how the ruling party are administrating the means of production and distribution for 'everyone'.

socialism
ˈsəʊʃəlɪz(ə)m/
noun
  1. a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
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I wonder what it is like living in fear that the left could jump out at any moment, take all your money and give it to immigrants then imprison you for the racist memes you shared on your FB group.
 
Caracus2k said:
You have to define what you mean by 'Socialist' and 'left wing' for that to make any sense.....

There has never been an actual Socialist state by the dictionary definition because it would not work as the means of production and distribution can't be 'owned and regulated by the community as a whole'....

There will always need to be a ruling party and their will always be dissidents who don't agree with how the ruling party are administrating the means of production and distribution for 'everyone'.
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This is OCUK GD though where the definition of left has been reduced to "those that don't hate dem foreigners"
 
LOAM said:
This is OCUK GD though where the definition of left has been reduced to "those that don't hate dem foreigners"
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It happens with both sides but it's a lot more prevalent of here with right leaning posters. But they will complain about how people from the left make sweeping generations and saying everyone from the right is the same. Then with no hint of irony in the next paragraph talk about 'lefties hating free speech' and make sweeping generalisations of the left.
 
So the Nazi's were lefties because they were called the National Socialist Party, so that means North Korea is a democracy because it's name is Democratic People's Republic of Korea ?
 
Actually their initial direction was one on the left, they were anti-corporation, anti-rich and anti-capitalist. So...to say they were left leaning is not entirely inaccurate. At least initially. They somehow managed to go full retard after that.
 
Dis86 said:
Actually their initial direction was one on the left, they were anti-corporation, anti-rich and anti-capitalist. So...to say they were left leaning is not entirely inaccurate. At least initially. They somehow managed to go full retard after that.
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Well, being anti-corporation, anti-rich and anti-capitalist is already full retard but yeah
 
Dis86 said:
Actually their initial direction was one on the left, they were anti-corporation, anti-rich and anti-capitalist. So...to say they were left leaning is not entirely inaccurate. At least initially. They somehow managed to go full retard after that.
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You do have to put those aims into context, their goal even with their anti-corporation etc ideals wasn't due to wanting to further socialist ideals, but nationalistic ones

I know wiki isn't the be all and end all but

The National Socialist German Workers' Party commonly referred to in English as the Nazi Party was a far-right political party in Germany that was active between 1920 and 1945 and practised the ideology of Nazism. Its precursor, the German Workers' Party (Deutsche Arbeiterpartei; DAP), existed from 1919 to 1920.

The Nazi Party emerged from the German nationalist, racist and populist Freikorpsparamilitary culture, which fought against the communist uprisings in post-World War IGermany.[7] The party was created as a means to draw workers away from communism and into völkisch nationalism.[8] Initially, Nazi political strategy focused on anti-big business, anti-bourgeois and anti-capitalist rhetoric, although such aspects were later downplayed in order to gain the support of industrial entities and in the 1930s the party's focus shifted to anti-Semitic and anti-Marxist themes.[9]
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Doesn't sound much like lefty socialists to me. Their ideology of Nazism was based on

Nazism is a form of fascism and showed that ideology's disdain for liberal democracy and the parliamentary system, but also incorporated fervent antisemitism, scientific racism and eugenics into its creed. Its extreme nationalism came from Pan-Germanism and the Völkisch movement prominent in the German nationalism of the time, and it was strongly influenced by the anti-Communist Freikorps paramilitarygroups that emerged after Germany's defeat in World War I, from which came the party's "cult of violence" which was "at the heart of the movement."[2]

The term "National Socialism" arose out of attempts to create a nationalist redefinition of "socialism", as an alternative to both international socialism and free market capitalism. Nazism rejected the Marxist concept of class conflict, opposed cosmopolitan internationalism and sought to convince all parts of the new German society to subordinate their personal interests to the "common good", accepting political interests as the main priority of economic organization.[4]

The Nazi Party's precursor, the Pan-German nationalist and antisemitic German Workers' Party, was founded on 5 January 1919. By the early 1920s the party was renamed the National Socialist German Workers' Party – to attract workers away from left-wing parties such as the Social Democrats (SPD) and the Communists (KPD)
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Like I previously said, they used the word socialist in their name intentionally as a propaganda tool.
 
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Freakbro said:
You do have to put those aims into context, their goal even with their anti-corporation etc ideals wasn't due to wanting to further socialist ideals, but nationalistic ones

I know wiki isn't the be all and end all but
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I can't comment on their aims as they may well have been nothing but a smokescreen however my understanding is that they were essentially a workers rights party. Wanting the average man on the street to get the best deal. This then basically became the average German man, screw everyone else.
 
Dis86 said:
I can't comment on their aims as they may well have been nothing but a smokescreen however my understanding is that they were essentially a workers rights party. Wanting the average man on the street to get the best deal. This then basically became the average German man, screw everyone else.
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You quoted me before I finished, I was having trouble copy pasting on this tablet :)

But they didn't even do that for the common German man either, they banned trade unions, froze wages, increased working hours and made strikes illegal.

They paid lip service to socialist ideals only to further their nationalistic goals
 
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