Road Cycling

[Roady]

Don't they do 12H & 24H TT's on Castle Coombe? Relays and such too? Fairly sure I'd heard of them going on.

If anyone remembers @Jono who used to post here (hadn't been active recently) he passed away on the 19th (liver cancer I think). There's a thread in GD I missed (although I knew through Facebook). RIP buddy

 

[NoNameNoNumber]

Powertap P1s vs Favero Assioma Uno vs Garmin Vector 3s

For use with oval chain rings

All look to do exactly what I want except I can't see anywhere specifically stating the Garmin are ok with oval rings. Can't really justify dual sided, although if I did have a moment... The Assiomas are the cheapest by some margin on the duals at £719 (£749 P1 and £849 Vector 3)
Worried if I go for cranks then they won't be suitable for the next bike so pedals seem to be the best option (first foray into power meters.)

Wahoo bike computer
Fenix 5 watch and Garmin connect I expect any of them will all play well together.


Any input hugely appreciated guys

Thanks

 

[SoliD]

Don't they do 12H & 24H TT's on Castle Coombe? Relays and such too? Fairly sure I'd heard of them going on.

If anyone remembers @Jono who used to post here (hadn't been active recently) he passed away on the 19th (liver cancer I think). There's a thread in GD I missed (although I knew through Facebook). RIP buddy

Real shame to hear! RIP.

Powertap P1s vs Favero Assioma Uno vs Garmin Vector 3s

For use with oval chain rings

All look to do exactly what I want except I can't see anywhere specifically stating the Garmin are ok with oval rings. Can't really justify dual sided, although if I did have a moment... The Assiomas are the cheapest by some margin on the duals at £719 (£749 P1 and £849 Vector 3)
Worried if I go for cranks then they won't be suitable for the next bike so pedals seem to be the best option (first foray into power meters.)

Wahoo bike computer
Fenix 5 watch and Garmin connect I expect any of them will all play well together.


Any input hugely appreciated guys

Thanks

Garmins can be found cheaper if you buy the S and then the upgrade I think through Sigma for the S and then Evans for the upgrade.

Reading DCRainmaker I'd say Garmins, heard issues with supply chain for Assiomas, and Garmins show as one single unit unlike the others so are compataible with everything including Zwift etc. Plus obviously lots of dynamics to go with them that arent available with the others.

 

[One More Solo]

I've been pretty happy with my P1s, the battery life is good and they have been reliable (a lot of times where I've had issues it's been the Garmin at fault). I'm not hugely impressed with the bearing life but think I'll get a couple of years out of them still.

 

[Roady]

Powertap P1s vs Favero Assioma Uno vs Garmin Vector 3s

For use with oval chain rings
<snip>
Any input hugely appreciated guys

Although I'm no Garmin fan I'd recommend the Vector 3 with the P1 and Assos coming second/last. You get quite a bit more from the vectors as they're a couple of years newer than the others.

Regarding Oval rings, the P1's are known to work with them but you'll have to check the others. Powertap are a bit of an unknown at the moment (and I'm a Powertap fan & C1 owner). They're owned by Saris Group and there's no future roadmaps/products announced. There's been several price drops to retain market share to Garmin and bring them in line with Assioma, after their release of the V3, but nothing else. Just very 'quiet' for what is a progressing and very active market. I'd hate to see them fold, their hubs are one of the most accurate base PWM's that many are compared against, while the P1's where really popular (even after the battery door issues they had). My C1 is pretty good but not without it's quirks and own problems, they've removed them from retail channels and now only sell them directly.

Can recommend the Wahoo BOLT. Fantastic unit. Has all the features of the ELEMNT (which I own), in a smaller form factor and cheaper price. Just a few less data fields on screen.

Although worth noting that only Garmin devices work with Garmin connect. You also only get the advanced pedal metrics from the V3 with Garmin Connect. I'm unsure if you'd get them with V3's and a Wahoo headunit as the data wouldn't be in GC?

 

[NoNameNoNumber]

The things I don't like about the Powertap and Assioma. Look cleats. I have run the blue SPD-sl cleats for a while and happy with them, shame they're all Look.
Apparently they're weighted poorly (like the composite Ultegra pedals of late) and don't hang nicely for a quick getaway.

The Bolt is a beauty, but all of my Strava stuff comes from the Fenix 5... Which I imagine would play ball with the Vectors and Connect.

I'm not too fussed tbh, even if the Vector does in fact read 1-4% over with the oval rings... Consistency is the key for what I'm after.

 

[BennyC]

Powertap P1s vs Favero Assioma Uno vs Garmin Vector 3s

I've been using the P1's for just under 2 years now and they have been very reliable. I have had the odd issue but nothing I've not been able to resolve and for about 98% of my usage it's just plug, play and forget.

I recently managed to grab the P1S for £340 as a stop-gap/back-up whilst my P1's go back in for a warranty claim/bearing service. cyclepowermeters.com can now turnaround a bearing service is 5 working days so it's hardly a long time but any excuse for a backup . A few issues reared their head lately and it was enough for me to begrudgingly send them in which I will do shortly once I've run some comparisons between the P1's & P1S so I can gauge any differential.

Battery life with Energizer Ultimate Lithium AAA's is around 70-80hrs or 1,500-1,800 miles. Carrying a spare is hardly cumbersome

Wellgo cleats, which is what they actually use, can be had on the 'bay for £8 a pair delivered from Mr Chin.

BritishCycling membership will get you 10% off further in-store with Halfords so you could snag the P1's for £675 If you could convince them to also honour PBK's current promo you could save a further £20 but if the cashier is savvy it'll be one or the other not both

I've been pretty happy with my P1s, the battery life is good and they have been reliable (a lot of times where I've had issues it's been the Garmin at fault). I'm not hugely impressed with the bearing life but think I'll get a couple of years out of them still.

My bearings developed radial play around 8 months in but since then it's not worsened.

Interestingly there is now a V3 battery cap which has a much deeper recess for the hex bit presumably to mitigate rounding even further. The battery chamber also seems to be much snugger. Interestingly too there was only around 30g difference between the P1 & P1S on my scales.

SRM have just released the EXAKT too, with accompanying price tag

 

[Trox]

The things I don't like about the Powertap and Assioma. Look cleats. I have run the blue SPD-sl cleats for a while and happy with them, shame they're all Look.
Apparently they're weighted poorly (like the composite Ultegra pedals of late) and don't hang nicely for a quick getaway.

The Bolt is a beauty, but all of my Strava stuff comes from the Fenix 5... Which I imagine would play ball with the Vectors and Connect.

I'm not too fussed tbh, even if the Vector does in fact read 1-4% over with the oval rings... Consistency is the key for what I'm after.

I bought the Vector 3s a good few weeks ago now, they have 2 issues but are in the process of being fixed.

The latest firmware 3.30 has ANT outages on certain head units.
The battery holder has a design flaw which can potentially short out the battery and also causes the battery to lose contact with the pedal. Which results in power spikes, right pedal missing messages and power drops.

On the plus side, firmware 3.44 beta is available which resolves the ANT outages and Garmin are now accepting orders for replacement battery caps.

There's also a temp fix to make better battery contact, not an official fix though.

Since the beta firmware release I've been quite happy with mine


Also to quote the Garmin rep about Oval Chainrings...

All Vector power meters (1/2/3) currently assume an average crank velocity for the power calculation, so a varying actual crank velocity will over-inflate the torque when the velocity is lower than average, and under-inflate the torque from the part of the crank cycle where the velocity is higher.

The actual power error is given by the square of the velocity variation. Ten percent (as in the example in the article) velocity variation will give one percent power error. The alignment of the crank rings will typically cause the error to over-report the power. Since this relationship is fixed for a given crank setup, you could compensate by adjusting either the crank length or the scale factor downward by an appropriate amount.

 

[One More Solo]

@BennyC good spot on the v3 battery cap, is that available as a spare do you know?

Edit: ah, just seen on Cyclepowermeters. Might pick a pair up as a preventative more than anything. Mine have been fine though, touch wood. I even crashed on the right pedal fairly heavily over Christmas. It’s taken a chunk out of the body but they are still accurate when tested against my Neo.

 

[BennyC]

@BennyC good spot on the v3 battery cap, is that available as a spare do you know?

Edit: ah, just seen on Cyclepowermeters. Might pick a pair up as a preventative more than anything. Mine have been fine though, touch wood. I even crashed on the right pedal fairly heavily over Christmas. It’s taken a chunk out of the body but they are still accurate when tested against my Neo.

Link for convenience - same place for servicing/warranty claims. Communication is good so far. Mine have taken some absolute abuse too and still read true vs my KickR Spare caps are good to have for trips abroad. I'll be sending mine back with the V1's of course. Sod's law I bought V2's about 3 months ago and now V3's are out. A service/warranty claim includes new caps though

I had re-occurring dropouts, frozen cadence/wattage, master/slave fail (half power showing), and fluctuating signal strength recently. Hence the final straw. I've also had to prise apart the springs and wedge the caps with tin foil to stabilise signal, laughable really! Next day they're fine.

Really wish Powertap would revert the app to how it was on launch, actually showing a battery %, as the logo alone is incredibly useless - their CS rep alluded to something 'coming' soon over a year ago.

I've tried numerous 3rd party Bluetooth apps to try and get a reading but had no joy so just resort to monitoring the hours usage on TrainingPeaks and mileage on Strava to gauge when I think they're about dead. The Elemnt does show a battery strength but it's either 'Good' or 'Critical'

 

[One More Solo]

Yeah, the low battery warning on the unit is pretty useless. I’ve had the prompt and run them for another 24hrs riding without them dying. It’d be nice to have a more accurate reading to know when to take batteries out or replace them beforehand.

 

[SDK^]

It’s the same with Stages PM - I get a low battery warning and continue to run it for a couple of weeks before I change it.

 

[Shamrock]

Came 7th in a Cat4-only crit last night. Annoyed because I think I could have contested the top 3 spots if I wasn't uncertain about whether it was actually the final lap.

 

[Roady]

The things I don't like about the Powertap and Assioma. Look cleats. I have run the blue SPD-sl cleats for a while and happy with them, shame they're all Look.
Apparently they're weighted poorly (like the composite Ultegra pedals of late) and don't hang nicely for a quick getaway.

The Vectors are also Look cleats, or at least 'look compatible' cleats.

Not sure about weighting of pedals, but as a Look rider myself I do prefer the pedals and engagement over SPD-SL. I'll admit the cleats seem to be made of a softer plastic and don't last as long, but mine certainly engage better, squeak less and my pedal bearings have been better (riding Keo 2 Max). I've experienced less 'bad'/unsuccessful engagements than I used to find on SPD-SL, but that could be quite specific to me. The weighting is different (as is any change in pedals) but you'll soon get used to it as it's all technique based. I tend to end up on the reverse side of the pedal more than I did with SPD-SL (with is a firmer surface to pedal than SPD-SL), but times of pedal miss-engagement, gouging my ankle/shin (and be left with a rapidly spinning pedal) have almost totally vanished.

I've been using the P1's for just under 2 years now and they have been very reliable. I have had the odd issue but nothing I've not been able to resolve and for about 98% of my usage it's just plug, play and forget.

I recently managed to grab the P1S for £340 as a stop-gap/back-up whilst my P1's go back in for a warranty claim/bearing service.<snip>

SRM have just released the EXAKT too, with accompanying price tag

Bearings are covered under warranty or something else? To be honest your usage of the P1's has me convinced they'll be perfect for me. Do you mind sharing how much a service with cpm is? I'll only be able to afford the change by grabbing a second hand pair and then getting them serviced...

Starting price of the EXAKT isn't that far away from the starting price of the P1's. If you consider the rough starting price estimate at $1200-1300 to P1 at $1199 (which Powertap dropped down to $999 in August last year). So could be a viable V3 alternative in the future if SRM wanted to price match the V3 (currently at $999).

I bought the Vector 3s a good few weeks ago now, they have 2 issues but are in the process of being fixed.

The latest firmware 3.30 has ANT outages on certain head units.
The battery holder has a design flaw which can potentially short out the battery and also causes the battery to lose contact with the pedal. Which results in power spikes, right pedal missing messages and power drops.

On the plus side, firmware 3.44 beta is available which resolves the ANT outages and Garmin are now accepting orders for replacement battery caps.

Interesting that Garmin have experienced battery cap issues, is the cap the cause of the battery contact issue? Powertap had serveral problems with their cap, the alloy used wasn't very strong so the V1 where easy to round out. The springs used inside also where not that strong and broke/had poor contact so they changed them. Some also had water ingress from poor seals which I believe they changed, while I think also doing a deeper threaded area on the cap.

Really wish Powertap would revert the app to how it was on launch, actually showing a battery %, as the logo alone is incredibly useless - their CS rep alluded to something 'coming' soon over a year ago.

I've tried numerous 3rd party Bluetooth apps to try and get a reading but had no joy so just resort to monitoring the hours usage on TrainingPeaks and mileage on Strava to gauge when I think they're about dead. The Elemnt does show a battery strength but it's either 'Good' or 'Critical'

Weird, my C1 didn't have any power level reporting (apart from using an iOS only app) to start with, but after firmware revision & and update of my ELEMNT they now do. Admittedly it's similar to yours, but mine say 'Good' & 'Low'. I've not seen it say 'Critical' at any point but it's always died mid ride and it's not something I check very frequently...

 

[Trox]

The Vectors are also Look cleats, or at least 'look compatible' cleats.

Interesting that Garmin have experienced battery cap issues, is the cap the cause of the battery contact issue? Powertap had serveral problems with their cap, the alloy used wasn't very strong so the V1 where easy to round out. The springs used inside also where not that strong and broke/had poor contact so they changed them. Some also had water ingress from poor seals which I believe they changed, while I think also doing a deeper threaded area on the cap.

Yea, the Vectors come with anti-slip LOOK Kéo-compatible cleats with 6 degree, Im sure there named Exustar.

Garmin have accepted that the fault is in the design of the battery cap, as it holds the LR44 batteries within the cap.
My caps come in a week but if you live in the US you can get it next day.

If you order the Vector 3 now it'll more than likely ship with firmware issues and the old caps.

Both of which can be fixed though

 

[DanF]

Was thinking of getting some vector 3s to be able to swap bikes easier. Currently have a 4iiii on 105 crank and a p2m type s in cannondale fit. The 4iiii has gone through 3 batteries in 5 rides so I need to warranty it. The p2m has been rock solid but the cannondale fitting has been annoying. I'm swapping out my Synapse for a supersix evo, a big reason for the SSE was to be able to reuse the p2m and save some cash. Selling both PMs would get a fair chunk of the vector 3 price.

Looked in to Q factor as well, the Vector 3 sits in-between std and +4mm ultegra pedals for axle length. I've been using +4mm pedals to help with bike fit.

 

[SDK^]

A push today for two KOM's

1 : A short climb segment : 30 seconds at 700w avg : https://www.strava.com/segments/7148836?filter=overall

- A five second rest and continued the push onto.....

2: A four minute segment at 350w avg : https://www.strava.com/segments/7449744?filter=overall

 

[BennyC]

Bearings are covered under warranty or something else? To be honest your usage of the P1's has me convinced they'll be perfect for me. Do you mind sharing how much a service with cpm is? I'll only be able to afford the change by grabbing a second hand pair and then getting them serviced...

6 months on bearings, which is pretty poor.

Circa £200, it's on their website. I would just be inclined to buy new @ £675 and benefit from a 2 year warranty, exc. bearings @ 6 months ofc.

So could be a viable V3 alternative in the future if SRM wanted to price match the V3 (currently at $999).

V1, V2, V3 relates to the battery cap versions, not the pedals themselves.

 

[Saytan]

any recommendations for a pair of stiff-soled 2 bolt shoes at a reasonable price? I think the floppy touring shoes I'm using for commuting are aggravating my plantar fasciitis

 

[SoliD]

Whats reasonable>? I really like my XC7s for CX.