Share Your Best Pizza Dough...

[FrenchTart]

How much water and flour? Are you adding any oil? How long kneading/autolysing?

What exact flour is it? Some 00 you buy from supermarkets isn't made for pizza - it's for pasta.

 

[jpaul]

with current temperature proving period and use window is reduced, otherwise will over-prove/sink-back/(die? it has converted all the sugar),
so do need to refrigerate faster (and always allow to return to room temp before using)

(an experience thing but) increasing flour might be needed too, during kneeding to get right feel

on shrinking after rolling it out

presume you do not mean a rolling pin.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

How much water and flour? Are you adding any oil? How long kneading/autolysing?

What exact flour is it? Some 00 you buy from supermarkets isn't made for pizza - it's for pasta.

https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1016230-robertas-pizza-dough

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Molino-Gra...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=0JT1EEHJ63WK6FT1M5NV

that dough recipe and that flour.

throw it in stand mixer until it's mixed. then throw into a pyrex glass bowl for 2 hours. it's fine to use that day. however if any left over. i will put into fridge and it triples in size. using it in that state it keeps shrinking and sticks to the peel no matter what i try.

 

[famas]

Never knew you could get 00 pizza flour. I've always used 00 pasta flour as that's all I've ever seen in the supermarket.

It still makes a nice dough though.

Whats the difference between 00 pizza and 00 pasta flour?

 

[FrenchTart]

https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1016230-robertas-pizza-dough

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Molino-Gra...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=0JT1EEHJ63WK6FT1M5NV

that dough recipe and that flour.

throw it in stand mixer until it's mixed. then throw into a pyrex glass bowl for 2 hours. it's fine to use that day. however if any left over. i will put into fridge and it triples in size. using it in that state it keeps shrinking and sticks to the peel no matter what i try.

Flour and your technique look good. I'm not sure about that recipe though.

(fyi: Difference between pasta flour and pizza flour is that the pasta flour will generally have lower protein - which means that when wet/risen it will be less 'sturdy' - which sounds like the issue you're having, only your flour is decent)

Maybe try this instead:

300g of 00 flour (no all-purpose)
185g/ml water
1 teaspoon of olive oil
1/4 a packet of dried instant yeast

Mix all the dry ingredients first. Then add the wet and use your stand mixer as you did above. Allow to prove for 2 hours then divide into 2-3 balls, depending on the size of pizza you want. Once you've divided, flour the outside of the balls a bit and then allow to rise again for an hour or two.

Rather than use a rolling pin I'd suggest learning to stretch the dough. The technique in this video you can learn pretty easily:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMuIOh9luzg

You'll need to watch that bit of the video a couple of times but you'll get it really quickly, especially if you're used to handling wet doughs (e.g. naan, pretty sure I remember chatting to you about that in the past).

Use a wooden pizza peel and a light dusting of flour or semolina. You shouldn't get any sticking.

 

[famas]

I'll have to keep an eye out for some pizza flour, do you know if any of the big supermarkets sell it?

I second never using a rolling pin for pizza. Best to learn how to stretch the dough by hand.

These video also shows a good technique

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4lL5I-UYbk&t=392s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96PwAE3ipyI

 

[jpaul]

I'll have to keep an eye out for some pizza flour, do you know if any of the big supermarkets sell it?

regular strong bread flour has similar protein content 12g , and works fine, although at £1/£1kg the amazon linked flour is not so expensive.

I had been experimenting with adding stone-ground flour into the mix, had a job lot of end of line rye from Aldi, but just learned that the reason this is not very successful is

The bran in stone-ground flour acts like little knives when bread is trying to rise; it interrupts the formation of a strong gluten matrix on which the dough can climb. In roller-milled flour, that dough can climb that matrix like a sky-hungry rock climber. (Although of course, it's still possible to make leaden loaves with standard-issue white flour.)

I thought stone-ground improved everything - lol

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Flour and your technique look good. I'm not sure about that recipe though.

(fyi: Difference between pasta flour and pizza flour is that the pasta flour will generally have lower protein - which means that when wet/risen it will be less 'sturdy' - which sounds like the issue you're having, only your flour is decent)

Maybe try this instead:

300g of 00 flour (no all-purpose)
185g/ml water
1 teaspoon of olive oil
1/4 a packet of dried instant yeast

Mix all the dry ingredients first. Then add the wet and use your stand mixer as you did above. Allow to prove for 2 hours then divide into 2-3 balls, depending on the size of pizza you want. Once you've divided, flour the outside of the balls a bit and then allow to rise again for an hour or two.

Rather than use a rolling pin I'd suggest learning to stretch the dough. The technique in this video you can learn pretty easily:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMuIOh9luzg

You'll need to watch that bit of the video a couple of times but you'll get it really quickly, especially if you're used to handling wet doughs (e.g. naan, pretty sure I remember chatting to you about that in the past).

Use a wooden pizza peel and a light dusting of flour or semolina. You shouldn't get any sticking.

i don't use any all purpose i substitute it with 00 flour so i double up on it. i think it's the fact it's being rolled and not floured before being put on the peel.

i think i'm going to try rolling it out flouring then flipping over onto a peel dusted with semolina.

i don't make the pizza's i'm usually outside controlling both the uuni and the bbq. the wife makes them. i've trained her how to do everything apart from roll the dough out by hand.

 

[Lartyconshayo]

i don't use any all purpose i substitute it with 00 flour so i double up on it. i think it's the fact it's being rolled and not floured before being put on the peel.

i think i'm going to try rolling it out flouring then flipping over onto a peel dusted with semolina.

i don't make the pizza's i'm usually outside controlling both the uuni and the bbq. the wife makes them. i've trained her how to do everything apart from roll the dough out by hand.

I use Peter Reinhart's Neo Neopolitan recipe which calls for less room.temp even for same day pizza :

"

1. 
   
   
   • Immediately divide the dough into 4 equal pieces. Round each piece into a ball and brush or rub each ball with olive or vegetable oil. Place each ball inside its own zippered freezer bag. Let the balls sit at room temperature for 15 minutes, then put them in the refrigerator overnight or freeze any pieces you will not be using the next day. (Or, if you are making the pizzas on the same day, let the dough balls sit in the bags at room temperature for 1 hour, remove them from the bags, punch them down, reshape them into balls, return them to the bags, and refrigerate for at least 2 hours.)

"

https://www.bakepedia.com/peter-reinharts-neo-neopolitan-pizza-dough/

 

[Psycho Sonny]

i think it's proving too much. as in tripling in size, etc. surely far too big? as in on the same day it's perfect. however next day or thereafter it's too much by then and becomes far too difficult to work with and sticky.

the above basically backs this up. i have no issues at all with it on the day it's made. i usually make the dough up 2 hours before it's made into pizzas. it's the leftover dough which is proving to be an issue. maybe i could try freezing it in order to make the yeast go dormant.

i think it's a matter of making sure you make the right amount of dough in future with none left over.

 

[jpaul]

as in tripling in size, etc. surely far too big?

Do you constrain it in the fridge ?.. I wrap it in cling with little breathing space, and it's retarded by the temperature anyway

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Do you constrain it in the fridge ?.. I wrap it in cling with little breathing space, and it's retarded by the temperature anyway

don't constrain no. i stick cling film on top of the bowl. it has on occasion just burst through it. so last time i put it in a plastic container with a clip lid. it burst through that as well.

i have a top of the range samsung fridge and trust me when i say it's kept ice cold. i have some soda water which turned to ice yesterday. so i have no idea why the yeast is still active. it is very fancy french yeast though. i may try and use it to make some alcoholic cider / ginger beer. i have made alcoholic ginger beer int he past using pat mack's brewing caps and the yeast he supplies with it. however this french yeast looks to be super stuff.

 

[FrenchTart]

don't constrain no. i stick cling film on top of the bowl. it has on occasion just burst through it. so last time i put it in a plastic container with a clip lid. it burst through that as well.

i have a top of the range samsung fridge and trust me when i say it's kept ice cold. i have some soda water which turned to ice yesterday. so i have no idea why the yeast is still active. it is very fancy french yeast though. i may try and use it to make some alcoholic cider / ginger beer. i have made alcoholic ginger beer int he past using pat mack's brewing caps and the yeast he supplies with it. however this french yeast looks to be super stuff.

The yeast will stay active even at fridge temperatures. It just slows it down a lot. And obviously in the hours it takes to cool from room temp to fridge temp it will remain a lot more active.

I've personally used dough that has been in the fridge for 5 days or more. All I do when I take it out is give it a quick knead/mix and then shape it into balls (and apply a little flour to the outside). If you do this and then follow the steps in the video above even very sticky dough will be okay to work with.

edit:

Over-proving can cause stickiness too actually. The yeast will eventually break down the gluten structure, which means that the dough goes much more stick and is less able to hold its shape. It will also eventually cause the dough to "weep" an astringent-smelling liquid (partially alcohol).

If you're getting this in 24 hours then you should probably reduce the amount of yeast you add to the dough.

Alternatively your idea of freezing it is fine. Simply take it out the morning of the day you want to use it to defrost and come back to life.

 

[Shoeyuk]

There’s a great app called PizzaApp that I use which you set set how big dough balls you want, type of yeast, proving time and temp and it will recommend the amounts of flour/water/yeast etc

I normally do a 72hour fridge prove and use the following, if I needed the dough quicker I’d just up the yeast to 7g rather than the 2 below.

500g 00 pizza flour
2g of yeast
300ml water 1/3 boiling 2/3 cold
10g sea salt
20g olive oil

 

[Psycho Sonny]

The yeast will stay active even at fridge temperatures. It just slows it down a lot. And obviously in the hours it takes to cool from room temp to fridge temp it will remain a lot more active.

I've personally used dough that has been in the fridge for 5 days or more. All I do when I take it out is give it a quick knead/mix and then shape it into balls (and apply a little flour to the outside). If you do this and then follow the steps in the video above even very sticky dough will be okay to work with.

edit:

Over-proving can cause stickiness too actually. The yeast will eventually break down the gluten structure, which means that the dough goes much more stick and is less able to hold its shape. It will also eventually cause the dough to "weep" an astringent-smelling liquid (partially alcohol).

If you're getting this in 24 hours then you should probably reduce the amount of yeast you add to the dough.

Alternatively your idea of freezing it is fine. Simply take it out the morning of the day you want to use it to defrost and come back to life.

i thought that it goes dormant. as in it's still alive just in hibernation. however the fact it's still expanding is contrary to this.

because when i stuck the ginger beer in the fridge it stopped fermenting (making it stronger) however if i was to put it back out at room temp it would become active again and make it higher in percentage.

i'll try some of the tips. less yeast i don't think will make any difference. yeast multiplies. it's a living being. it may slow it down a bit at the start but once it gets going it will end up with the same result i think. well that's what happens when brewing alcohol. it doesn't matter if i use 15 balls or 30 balls of yeast the amount of alcohol made will still be relatively the same each day. as it will multiply according to the conditions rather than the amount used. at the early stages it may make a big difference. if this really is a super yeast then maybe it's not suitable for long proves? i think i may need to try a different strain of yeast however i have a shed-load of this stuff so ideally want to use it. maybe it's time to make more ginger beer?

 

[jpaul]

quick google http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/52395/refridgerated-yeast
yeast inactive below 50f/10C ? so should be unhappy in a fridge .... what ~4c?

edit .. what happens in fridge .. just the enzymes ?
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/44929/resting-and-proving-room-temperature

Peter Reinhart explains that the enzymes in the dough do the job of breaking down the starch and releasing all the trapped sugars which creates flavour while the yeast is busy breathing making the dough rise. Warm temperatures will speed up yeast activity but not really the enzyme activity, that's why bread that ferments for longer will taste better. I've started proving my dough slower, overnight in the fridge and I've loved the results. From what I understood the slower fermentation also helps with the gluten development, maybe that's why your dough feels so much nicer. Not sure why it would spread more though

 

[Shoeyuk]

This is the yeast i have at the moment: NIL Dcl Saf Levure Active Dried Yeast

I am not 100% sure with the fridge method in regards on what happens with the yeast dying or just not working. However see a lot of pizza recipes having a cold proving period between 24-72 hours depending on the recipe you look at. It's also mentioned a lot on the Unni Pizza oven group on facebook.

I have had my Pizza over for a couple of weeks and the fridge method seems to work fine for me so far in the 10 batches of dough done this way.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

This is the yeast i have at the moment: NIL Dcl Saf Levure Active Dried Yeast

I am not 100% sure with the fridge method in regards on what happens with the yeast dying or just not working. However see a lot of pizza recipes having a cold proving period between 24-72 hours depending on the recipe you look at. It's also mentioned a lot on the Unni Pizza oven group on facebook.

I have had my Pizza over for a couple of weeks and the fridge method seems to work fine for me so far in the 10 batches of dough done this way.

using the same yeast. what flour are you using though?

using after 2 hours it's good. it's when it's put in the fridge to be used later which is causing me issues. the easiest way is to just make enough to use that day and that is it. it's not as if it's hard work. i throw everything into a kenwood stand mixer and it's done within 2 minutes.

 

[Shoeyuk]

I am using Molino Grassi Italian Flour its 00 flour comes in a red and white bag you can get it on amazon for about £11 for 10 1 kg bags. When i take it out of the fridge i leave it to come back to room temp 2-3 hours before i need it. This is my rough process from start to finish. I also use a kenwood chef as well to mix it all together.

Put dry ingredients in the mixing bowl
Add yeast/water/oil in jug and mix well, pour into the flour with the speed low until you get a ball of dough.
Turn speed to 4 and leave it for 10 mins.
Take out of the mixing bowl, and cut into 200g chunks an ball it up. (200g is about the right size for what i need for my pizza oven) doesn't have to be exact a few grams either way doesn't matter too much.
Either have a large tub or small tubs and put balls in fridge, if using a large tub make sure there is some space to grow.
Cover well with cling film and leave for as long as you like.
Get out of fridge and leave 2-3 hours room temp before you need it, as it will grow.

If your not cold proving, i would basically do the same up till the balling stage, and then leave them wrapped up in a warm area for 3-5 hours.

 

[TechMinerUK]

Long time no post but last weekend I had a go at the serious eats "Sicilian Pizza" which is more of a bread/deep pan style