Beginning of the end for Tesla & Musk ?

Minusorange · 23 Jul 2018 at 15:18

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-it-asked-suppliers-for-refunds-idUSKBN1KD1CE

Tesla has asked some suppliers to refund money paid by the electric car maker since 2016, the Wall Street Journal reported on Sunday citing a memo.

The memo, which the paper said was sent by a global supply manager, described the request as essential to Tesla’s continued operation and characterized it as an investment in the car company to continue the long-term growth between both players.

This seems utterly bizarre even the likes of General Motors and Chrysler didn't do anything this drastic in the run up to their bankruptcies, it's basically a company version of looking under the couch for any loose coins.

No wonder Musk has been going off the rails on Twitter recently

Scania · 23 Jul 2018 at 17:21

Possibly, he does seem to be losing the plot somewhat and Tesla have well documented issues...

I wouldn’t be surprised to see them go to the wall and the mainstream manufacturers step in and hoover up their tech.

It’s rare that the innovator gets the fruit...

G-MAN2004 · 23 Jul 2018 at 17:25

He needs to get rid and focus on SpaceX instead.

jsmoke · 23 Jul 2018 at 17:35

You do wonder how the bigger companies survive especially as people start buying second hand cars.

crinkleshoes · 23 Jul 2018 at 17:45

We can only hope it is...

Scania said:
It’s rare that the innovator gets the fruit...

Would genuinely love to see that happen... he abused the Tesla named as has made comments about how much he aspires to be a new Edison...

Werewolf · 23 Jul 2018 at 18:00

jsmoke said:
You do wonder how the bigger companies survive especially as people start buying second hand cars.

Because they allow for that in the number of cars being built, and people have (this is a big secret) always bought second hand cars.

It's relatively new (last couple of decades) for people to have had more newer cars, as back in the 60's-80's and probably 90's people tended to be able to do a lot more repairs to their car at home/with the help of friends to keep them running or fix accident damage in an affordable manner, what tends to kill the cars off is the cost of a replacement part that once upon a time would have been bashed back into shape or refurbished by a mid skilled engineer (solid state and plastics may in theory last longer than mechanical parts and metal, but you can't take a solid state part down to an engineers workshop and have them open it up, clean it and replace the common 5p part).

Werewolf · 23 Jul 2018 at 18:02

Minusorange said:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-it-asked-suppliers-for-refunds-idUSKBN1KD1CE

This seems utterly bizarre even the likes of General Motors and Chrysler didn't do anything this drastic in the run up to their bankruptcies, it's basically a company version of looking under the couch for any loose coins.

No wonder Musk has been going off the rails on Twitter recently

To me it sounds like he's realised the company has not got enough money to keep running*, and the investors are unwilling to put more in given the delays and QC issues he's been having (some of which anyone who has the most basic understanding of manufacturing could have warned him about, let alone anyone in the industry with the right experience in setting up automotive production lines).

*He laid off something like 9% of the work force not long ago, then started putting up tents to act as temporary production lines because he didn't have capacity in the factory to meet what he'd promised the investors (and IIRC he doesn't like using robots because they're "inflexible" compared to human workers, despite the fact they are far faster and more reliable for basic production line work, including a lot of the heavy/complex stuff).

jsmoke · 23 Jul 2018 at 18:17

Werewolf said:
Because they allow for that in the number of cars being built, and people have (this is a big secret) always bought second hand cars.

It's relatively new (last couple of decades) for people to have had more newer cars, as back in the 60's-80's and probably 90's people tended to be able to do a lot more repairs to their car at home/with the help of friends to keep them running or fix accident damage in an affordable manner, what tends to kill the cars off is the cost of a replacement part that once upon a time would have been bashed back into shape or refurbished by a mid skilled engineer (solid state and plastics may in theory last longer than mechanical parts and metal, but you can't take a solid state part down to an engineers workshop and have them open it up, clean it and replace the common 5p part).

I do remember that about the 80s and 90s all the escorts, granadas, seirras, astras etc. People have definitely bought newer cars over the last 15 years or so. Must be a lot more money swishing about.

And the Hayne's manuals.

Fusion · 23 Jul 2018 at 18:21

My firm supply Tesla, not heard anything of this sort yet.

adolf hamster · 23 Jul 2018 at 18:50

Werewolf said:
solid state and plastics may in theory last longer than mechanical parts and metal, but you can't take a solid state part down to an engineers workshop and have them open it up, clean it and replace the common 5p part.

and this is what's wrong with the majority of modern products, cars are just the latest victim. there's also a lot of it goes into manufacturing effeciency, sure putting snap tabs on everything makes it 20% faster to assemble, but it makes it 200% slower to work on and 100% more likely to get irreparably broken in the process.

413x · 23 Jul 2018 at 19:08

Teslas share price is so speculative.
I can kind of understand it, but its a big big gameble to be priced that high

Bonjour · 23 Jul 2018 at 20:37

Electric cars aren't really the be-all-and-end-all anyway. All they do is shift the pollution out of the cities and to the power plants.

Safe hydrogen fuel cells is what we need.

Minstadave · 23 Jul 2018 at 20:45

Bonjour said:
Electric cars aren't really the be-all-and-end-all anyway. All they do is shift the pollution out of the cities and to the power plants.

Safe hydrogen fuel cells is what we need.

Nothing wrong with electric if the investment is there in renewables. We're over 25% in the UK aren't we?

MonsterMoshi · 23 Jul 2018 at 20:46

Bonjour said:
Electric cars aren't really the be-all-and-end-all anyway. All they do is shift the pollution out of the cities and to the power plants.

Safe hydrogen fuel cells is what we need.

How do you think hydrogen is produced?

Tefal · 23 Jul 2018 at 21:00

Bonjour said:
Electric cars aren't really the be-all-and-end-all anyway. All they do is shift the pollution out of the cities and to the power plants.

Safe hydrogen fuel cells is what we need.

But that doesn't solve the problem, you still have power plants because it takes more electricity to make hydrogen than you get back from it. Also now you have to inefficiently ship hydrogen around the country rather than just using wires to transmit the greater amount of electricity you'd have if you didn't make hydrogen

adolf hamster · 23 Jul 2018 at 21:01

Minstadave said:
Nothing wrong with electric if the investment is there in renewables. We're over 25% in the UK aren't we?

25% of our current demand, which will only get greater and if they aren't putting the effort into building more to meet the new demand then there'll be nothing for it but pull the old coal stations back into service because we haven't thought that maybe building a few more nuclear power stations might have been a good idea 20 years ago.

Desmo · 23 Jul 2018 at 21:07

It's always a case of "the end is nigh" for Tesla and yet they still keep rocking on. So many people want to see them fail.

I want to see electric succeed and it's great seeing a company like Tesla shake up the old guard....so much so, I bought one.

Malt_Vinegar · 23 Jul 2018 at 21:33

Tesla to be bought by GM?
Spun out as a brand for GM and manufactured from their plants..

StriderX · 23 Jul 2018 at 21:37

Tefal said:
But that doesn't solve the problem, you still have power plants because it takes more electricity to make hydrogen than you get back from it. Also now you have to inefficiently ship hydrogen around the country rather than just using wires to transmit the greater amount of electricity you'd have if you didn't make hydrogen

I think the greatest benefit of focusing some effort into HCells is ultimately it's prime usage as a modern propellant in space, it's better to have some understanding of it before we commit massive mining operations all over the solar system.

We'll require it for a generation ship anyway, we should really be making some serious species continuation plans right now.

McGraw · 23 Jul 2018 at 22:12

Tesla sums up a lot of what I hate about capitalism.

I hope it fails as it is obviously unsustainable without a ridiculous amount of funding.

Beginning of the end for Tesla & Musk ?

Transmission breaker