Opinion please - continue to try to fix or walk away

Hades

Hades

Hades

Man of Honour
Joined
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Posts
29,902
Location
Surrey
I have a situation with my Golf which has got to the point where I need to make a decision on whether to continue fixing it or just walk away. I'd be interested in opinions before I make a rash decision.

Car

2009 VW Golf GTI
Approx 90k miles.
Value (if running): I'd guess about £5k to £6k. This is just a guess and I may be wrong.
I am the second owner. The car was bought as approved used from VW approximately 6 years ago.
The car is in generally very good condition apart from a scuffed front wheel.
Leather interior (only mentioned in case it alters resale value as that's fairly unusual)

Other expenses due...
1) It is due for an annual service and MOT imminently.

2) To pass the MOT I need to replace the front discs and pads, and also the rear pads.


Background

About two months ago the car would not start. There are no fault codes showing. The RAC could not diagnose it so I had it towed to my regular indy garage.

The car appears to be massively over fueling. They found a small amount of swarf in the fuel system and suspected this may have damaged the injectors. So far we have replaced all four injectors, the high pressure fuel pump (which could have been the cause of the swarf), fuel filter and fuel, with the fuel system being flushed out. After doing this the car started and ran OK for a short time while it got up to temperature. The next day they road tested it and it spluttered, then failed to start again. Before replacing them we did have a conversation that they could not be sure they would fix the issue but appeared to be the most likely cause. So I am not at all complaining about this work. It was my decision along with their guidance. I took a chance and it didn't pay off.

No fault codes have ever shown (one minor fault code does show with the radio antennae, indicating the fault code system itself is working)

After considerable testing the garage have not been able to diagnose the issue. The garage is run by ex-VW mechanics and an ex-VW 'master-tec' and I have used them for many years. I trust their work and have a good relationship with them. They have been doing most of the diagnostic work for free. Several mechanics have looked at the car and started right back at basics checking compression, fuel pump, spark, etc, etc. They have also taken the car to another garage they work with for a second opinion but they were unable to diagnose the issue.

The car has been with them for almost two months with regular updates about what they are checking and testing. So the garage has put considerable effort into it.


Options

1) Start replacing random parts... The garage have advised the next step would be to have the ECU tested. However they have also said that in the past they have sent ECU's away for testing and they have come back as OK, despite later being found to be faulty when they have finally replaced it. So while they are happy to offer this option they advised the test results are not always accurate and it may be better to replace the ECU with a known working one. There is no indication the ECU is at fault and after replacing it we may be looking at trying something else. But it is their next best opinion after the injectors and fuel pump.

2) Take it to VW to see whether they can diagnose it. The current garage advise they do have access to the same diagnostics equipment which the VW garage would have. Once at VW the costs will start mounting considerably.

3) Quit my losses, sell the car as not running and just move onto something else with the little money I recover from it.


Money is quite tight at the moment as we are pilling everything into refurbishing a house. So none of the options are ideal. Therefore the worst case scenario would be to keep chasing a fix, incurring additional cost, and eroding any money I have for another car.


Opinions? Thanks.
 
Option 3 is what I would personally do if I was in your shoes. It's not the best situation or option but I feel for you.
 
rhysduck said:
Option 3 is what I would personally do if I was in your shoes. It's not the best situation or option but I feel for you.
Click to expand...

Thanks.

billysielu said:
I wouldn't want to keep spending money on it, sounds like a lost cause. So I'd be selling it, and of course that requires honesty about its condition.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Yes I would have course be completely honest, list all known faults, what work has been done so far, etc.
 
2009 is presumably a MK6 with the EA888 Engine?

If so then Timing Chain tensioner is a a common fault on these (which could cause poor running/starting).


If it's the older EA113 engine then there's a whole list of common issues worth checking
- Cam follower, which cause swarf as it disintegrates
- High Pressure Fuel pump
- Diverter Valve
- PCV
https://www.shopdap.com/blog/vw-audi-20t-fsi-common-problems.html
http://www.gt-innovation.de/wordpress/dtcs/2-0l-tfsi-ea113-common-engine-problems/


Whilst throwing more money at it isn't necessarily ideal, if you already have with regards to having the injectors and fuel pump replaced then I'd be tempted to carry on:- you can't really included the lack of MOT/Brake consumables, as whatever car you change to could equally need them shortly; A non-running example is going to be worth considerably less than your valuation above.

Rather than taking it to VW, there must be a VW specialist garage or member of e.g. GolfGTI forum that has access to VAGCOM or similar that may shed more light on the issue?
 
Armageus said:
2009 is presumably a MK6 with the EA888 Engine?

If so then Timing Chain tensioner is a a common fault on these (which could cause poor running/starting).


If it's the older EA113 engine then there's a whole list of common issues worth checking
- Cam follower, which cause swarf as it disintegrates
- High Pressure Fuel pump
- Diverter Valve
- PCV
https://www.shopdap.com/blog/vw-audi-20t-fsi-common-problems.html
http://www.gt-innovation.de/wordpress/dtcs/2-0l-tfsi-ea113-common-engine-problems/


Whilst throwing more money at it isn't necessarily ideal, if you already have with regards to having the injectors and fuel pump replaced then I'd be tempted to carry on:- you can't really included the lack of MOT/Brake consumables, as whatever car you change to could equally need them shortly; A non-running example is going to be worth considerably less than your valuation above.

Rather than taking it to VW, there must be a VW specialist garage or member of e.g. GolfGTI forum that has access to VAGCOM or similar that may shed more light on the issue?
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Thanks. Yes the timing chain has been checked but that's interesting about the cam followers. I will ask them. I will look at the other issues. High pressure fuel pump was replaced.

Yes I appreciate a non-runner will be worth considerably less.

Yes I understand the next car may also need discs/brakes but I would consider leasing new.

The garage (with ex-VW mastertec staff) does have full VW diagnostic equipment. We are beyond VAGCOM at this point.
 
I was in the same position with a 2007 Mondeo a few years ago suffering from really rough running. After 6 months in several garages (including a Ford garage) and over £1K already spent, I threw in the towel, sold it as not running to WBAC and bought a new car.

Co-incidentally, a few days later a guy contacted me. He had bought it at auction and wanted to know what was wrong with it as he bought it as a runner, which it clearly wasn't (I had tried to sell it privately online before going to WBAC).
 
ci_newman said:
I was in the same position with a 2007 Mondeo a few years ago suffering from really rough running. After 6 months in several garages (including a Ford garage) and over £1K already spent, I threw in the towel, sold it as not running to WBAC and bought a new car.

Co-incidentally, a few days later a guy contacted me. He had bought it at auction and wanted to know what was wrong with it as he bought it as a runner, which it clearly wasn't (I had tried to sell it privately online before going to WBAC).
Click to expand...

I didn't know they bought non-runners?

EDIT: I just checked their site and indeed they do. Obviously the valuation will be far, far lower. But worth keeping in mind. It's actually a really good car apart from the fact it doesn't actually work like a car :D

EDIT 2: £1,795 as a non-runner. At least I know an approximate lowest value. Several on ebay are under bid for higher than that. So it gives me a rough idea of worst case value.
 
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Are you part of an owners club? Know any friendly people who won't mind spending half a day swapping sensors?

If all the basics have been checked it's got to be a sensor surely? I'd at least rule them out before giving up.
 
In the case of my old Mondeo, the techs thought it might have been a wiring loom issue. They quoted £1000 just to strip it without any guarentee that it would fix the issue :o Thats the point I reached when I gave up with it
 
I've had a similar situation, however some years ago so was a less sophisticated system.

My car would randomly not start. You could hear the relay click, but that was it.
It was compounded by the fact it had an aftermarket alarm and immobiliser (one of the ones you pushed into a slot)
It also had about 3 miles of cables for stereo etc. Pretty much all were black taped up.
Plus the alarm was modified to have an extra battery backup and sounder concealed in the transmission tunnel, with a switch to disable this if you removed the fag tray.

We changed loads of bits, including starter motor. Nothing seemed to fix it. I had a manual work around, I had to jump a piece of wire directly from the battery to the positive of the starter motor, would work 100% of the time. Timing was tricky though, you had to insert the immobiliser and get out, run round to the bonnet, connect the wire before the immobiliser went back into immobilse mods, was some 20 secs or so. When you connected the wire it would turn the starter motor and then the normal turning key would make it work.
I had all sorts change ans tested and like you no error codes.

In the end i took it to a friend of a friend who specialised in auto and marine electrics and said look I can leave it with you for as long as it takes if you want to just do it as a project in between jobs, and we can sort out a mates rate cash in had at the end.
A month or so later he said he had found an offending wire, and fixed it. I never asked specifically what, I was so relieved to have it back it never occurred to me at the time.

Anyway, my point ;)

I was told the last thing to try if the guy who did find the fault couldn't was one of them in car tuning guys. The ones that will literally live map your car. As they can see every sensor in order to be able to do you a custom map under real world driving they believed they would be able to see if anything was an intermittent fault as they would be logging every sensor all the time. If this is an option for your ECU it could be worth contacting one of them, explaining the issue and seeing if they would be happy to have a quick drive with the laptop plugged in to see if anything goes wonky as the engine stutters?
 
Clearly there's something fundamentally wrong, and since you've tried the most likely faulty parts first and it's not resolved the problem it does sound like a control/electrics issue, especially since it seems to coincide with the engine getting up to temperature.

How much have you spent on this already? What would be the cost of replacing the current, possibly faulty, ECU it with a known working ECU? If it's a simple case of unplug the old and plug in the new (I have no idea myself) then maybe they have access to a known good one that they could test in your car to see if it solves the problem?

I'd be tempted to try this route. The cheapest solution would undoubtedly be to repair this car rather than replace it, but I understand your reluctance to begin throwing money into what might be a bottomless pit.
 
Thanks all. I've spent around £1k so far. The next step would be to replace the ECU. A new one is expensive but if I used a second hand part then the total cost, including fitting and recoding it to the engine is about £500.

I think at this stage I am inclined to try that before walking away.
 
I'd go for the ECU route first. We had an intermittent misfire on my mother's Polo a couple of years back, no amount t of garage time (main dealer it was bought from, a local trustworthy garage and a specialised independent) resolved it and we moved the car on. New owner eventually tried a new ECU and to my knowledge it's still running today.
 
Hades - If your anywhere near Guildford i would suggest getting S.E Autoworks to have a look over it if your thinking about trying to fix it. wouldn't take my VAG cars anywhere else.
 
CoreKrogoth said:
Hades - If your anywhere near Guildford i would suggest getting S.E Autoworks to have a look over it if your thinking about trying to fix it. wouldn't take my VAG cars anywhere else.
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Thanks. Appreciate the recommendation. But it's already with them! :D That's the guys I always use. I agree, I only take my cars there. If it were somewhere else then I would question their diagnostics but I know they are doing everything they can.
 
Thanks for all the advice. Having considered it further my decision has been to set a further small budget to investigate. If that budget is breached without finding the issue then I will sell the car as a non runner. There are a few things I would like to try first before throwing in the towel. But equally by setting a budget limit the decision is based on proper consideration rather than simply a rash decision either way.
 
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