*** The 2018 Gym Rats Thread ***

Associate
Joined
29 Jun 2011
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2,081
Hi guys. After some advice please.

I'm 37 years old, 5' 11", 92kg. I broke my leg quite badly a year and a half ago and ever since I've allowed the belly fat to get the better of me to what I consider approaching dangerous levels. So I want to do something about it now that my bone has finally knitted back together.

I have a rowing machine at home and a gym with some basic free weights facilities and a Smith machine at work, so no excuses.

My main goals are to improve health and body composition. I don't care about being able to cycle or run for miles and miles.

My left leg is still quite weak so I'm a little nervous about squats and deads, though I know I need to do these.

My plan was to go hard at the diet for an initial 6 month period, eliminating all alcohol, snacks, etc., before stabilising with something sustainable in the long term.

Exercise wise, I'll walk straight over to the weights each time I go to the gym, for warm up too. No cardio apart from the rower at home when I've missed the gym at work.

To start with I'll do deads, squats, then chest press, 3 sets of 10 of each exercise every time I visit the gym (5 days a week when possible). Might chuck in some upper back and tri stuff too.

Diet wise, black coffee and 3 egg scrambled eggs for breakfast, or porridge with water / skimmed milk.

Chicken and broccoli / long grain rice for lunch.

Chicken or fish and veg for dinner.

Only water allowed apart from the morning coffee and possibly protein shakes, as I know I'll struggle to eat enough of the above to build muscle.

Any thoughts are gratefully received. I'm basically fed up with looking like jelly and my gut popping my shirt out at work. Need my clothes to fit me and look good again!

Don't change too many things at once, from experience it doesn't work long term. I'd recommend changing your approach to almost the exact opposite of what you are planning to do i.e. get your diet and muscle imbalances sorted over the next 6 months then 'go hard' after that. If I was in the same position, as a brief example I would:

First month - concentrate on cutting out the crap in your diet as this alone will likely make you start losing weight. While doing this, start with some very basic single leg exercises (start with bodyweight). You'll want to get both legs to similar strength levels before starting squats/deadlifts as big imbalances will only lead to further injury.
Second month - calculate your TDEE (the amount of calories your body burns) and try and eat 500 calories below this. Start slowly increasing the lower body weights.
.
Fourth month - start squatting just the bar
etc

A few things to note. Don't deadlift, squat and chest press for 3x10 5 days per week. You'll need to split your workouts into appropriate bodypart splits i.e. back and biceps (deads), legs and shoulders (squats) and chest and triceps or 3 full body workouts per week i.e. stronglifts.

Good luck with whatever approach you take, just remember it's a marathon and not a sprint :D
 
Associate
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Has anyone tried a PSMF (protein sparring modified fast)? I keep reading about the great results people are having. Basically it's a 21 day keto diet with less fat and one refeed meal per week. Macros for me are 206p, 20c and 20f. As protein is kept high, it minimises muscle loss while rapidly accelerating fat loss due to the extreme caloric deficit.

I would normally be adverse to an extreme diet but I have 6 weeks to lose a stone and due to a foot injury, I can't run and I've been struggling to eat less than 500 cals below my TDEE. I'm expecting 3-4 days to be hard until I get into ketosis then hopefully the hunger cravings will decrease.
 
Soldato
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Location
London
Has anyone tried a PSMF (protein sparring modified fast)? I keep reading about the great results people are having. Basically it's a 21 day keto diet with less fat and one refeed meal per week. Macros for me are 206p, 20c and 20f. As protein is kept high, it minimises muscle loss while rapidly accelerating fat loss due to the extreme caloric deficit.

I would normally be adverse to an extreme diet but I have 6 weeks to lose a stone and due to a foot injury, I can't run and I've been struggling to eat less than 500 cals below my TDEE. I'm expecting 3-4 days to be hard until I get into ketosis then hopefully the hunger cravings will decrease.

Muscle loss is mitigated by a combination of sufficient protein and continuing to train with adequate intensity; you have to give your body a reason to keep holding on to muscle so that what you ingest is used to help spare you from catabolism despite being in a hypocaloric state.

RFL and other PSMF diets are pretty miserable and tend to work best for people who have a good relationship with food but treat dieting with contempt and would rather suffer for several weeks than take a more moderate approach for a few months. If you have the willpower to deal with the hunger, limited food choices and general joylessness of it then go for it. I tend to go for the 'mini-cut' approach where I'll do 4 week stints using a very aggressive but not PSMF level deficit so I can include more dietary fat and carbs to help with training, then have a 1 week diet break and repeat until I'm happy with how lean I am. I intentionally up my NEAT as best I can too to make the deficit larger without reducing food further. I find this a bit more tolerable than living off chicken breast/egg whites, broccoli/spinach and hot sauce for days on end.
 
Soldato
OP
Joined
19 Oct 2002
Posts
2,599
When doing bench press I seem to fail if I sometimes dont wait 4 to 5 mins between sets - but I dont know if I need that rest until I get to it and fail...…. catch 22....

So I could just rest 5 minutes for all sets - but that takes much longer and also is the benefits just as good as waiting 1m30 or 3min?

Or just fail with a shorter wait time but then have to unload bar and reset up.... and not doing all 5...

Can someone give me advice?

I even tried lowering the weight one time and I still failed towards 4th or 5th if I didnt rest 5 minutes!!!!!!
 
Soldato
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When doing bench press I seem to fail if I sometimes dont wait 4 to 5 mins between sets - but I dont know if I need that rest until I get to it and fail...…. catch 22....

So I could just rest 5 minutes for all sets - but that takes much longer and also is the benefits just as good as waiting 1m30 or 3min?

Or just fail with a shorter wait time but then have to unload bar and reset up.... and not doing all 5...

Can someone give me advice?

I even tried lowering the weight one time and I still failed towards 4th or 5th if I didnt rest 5 minutes!!!!!!

You take as long as you need to between sets, because completing the sets/reps accrues more quality training volume. If you're fatigued from the last set and fail the next one or perform is worse than if you'd have rested more, you end up doing less overall work and lifting less than you could have, which means less gains.

Short rests can be useful if you're supersetting isolation exercises or doing specific rest-pause protocols like Myo Reps, but for straight sets work you're just making things needlessly hard. What you're running into is one of the problems of 5x5 programs once you start leaving the novice stage; gym sessions can take ages as you typically have 3 exercises, each with 5 sets (plus warm-ups) which can easily take 90mins.
 
Soldato
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In other news did my first session next to work in the Pure gym, only had an hour so did the first half of my lower strength day, all the anterior/pushing stuff, tomorrow it's posterior/pulling. My gawd, I forgot how bad commercial gyms were for people doing bizarre things, form not even once and having to go hunt for plates.
 
Soldato
OP
Joined
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Posts
2,599
You take as long as you need to between sets, because completing the sets/reps accrues more quality training volume. If you're fatigued from the last set and fail the next one or perform is worse than if you'd have rested more, you end up doing less overall work and lifting less than you could have, which means less gains.

Short rests can be useful if you're supersetting isolation exercises or doing specific rest-pause protocols like Myo Reps, but for straight sets work you're just making things needlessly hard. What you're running into is one of the problems of 5x5 programs once you start leaving the novice stage; gym sessions can take ages as you typically have 3 exercises, each with 5 sets (plus warm-ups) which can easily take 90mins.

Ok cheers for that I will then start increasing weight as I was trying to get it down to 1m30 sec rest for all 5 sets...….

Probably do the first 2 on 1m30 and then rest 5mins for the last 3...…..
 
Soldato
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Ok cheers for that I will then start increasing weight as I was trying to get it down to 1m30 sec rest for all 5 sets...….

Probably do the first 2 on 1m30 and then rest 5mins for the last 3...…..

If you want to improve your conditioning, do some conditioning work afterwards. If you're doing heavy compound lifts for low reps, you have to rest longer between sets than more moderate or higher rep ranges for fatigue/heart rate to drop sufficiently that you can go at it again 100%. 3-5 minutes between sets is pretty bog-standard for people doing lower rep stuff.
 
Associate
Joined
29 Jun 2011
Posts
2,081
Muscle loss is mitigated by a combination of sufficient protein and continuing to train with adequate intensity; you have to give your body a reason to keep holding on to muscle so that what you ingest is used to help spare you from catabolism despite being in a hypocaloric state.

RFL and other PSMF diets are pretty miserable and tend to work best for people who have a good relationship with food but treat dieting with contempt and would rather suffer for several weeks than take a more moderate approach for a few months. If you have the willpower to deal with the hunger, limited food choices and general joylessness of it then go for it. I tend to go for the 'mini-cut' approach where I'll do 4 week stints using a very aggressive but not PSMF level deficit so I can include more dietary fat and carbs to help with training, then have a 1 week diet break and repeat until I'm happy with how lean I am. I intentionally up my NEAT as best I can too to make the deficit larger without reducing food further. I find this a bit more tolerable than living off chicken breast/egg whites, broccoli/spinach and hot sauce for days on end.

I think the mini-cut approach is best way forward for me. I'm not disciplined enough to consistently drop 1-2 lbs per week over a period of months. I started the PSMF diet Sunday and was very lethargic yesterday but I feel fine now. I must be in ketosis considering I have zero hunger today.
 
Soldato
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derby
Form check please, Thought I better start pulling conventional again, having been sumo for a while it seems to of helped.

feels a lot better than it used to but not perfect, don't know if I'm too upright?

want to start on reiyushins programme this week :)



TzvesvK.mp4
 
Soldato
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I think your form is good, some might say your hips are starting too low and having to rise up before the pull, I don't see that as an issue provided you are bracing effectively and you don't try and rip the bar from the ground.
I would avoid touch and go for a few years though, it has it's place but it's misused in almost every case imo.

If you can get a shot next time from 45 degrees from the front that would be helpful :)
 
Soldato
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I think your form is good, some might say your hips are starting too low and having to rise up before the pull, I don't see that as an issue provided you are bracing effectively and you don't try and rip the bar from the ground.
I would avoid touch and go for a few years though, it has it's place but it's misused in almost every case imo.

If you can get a shot next time from 45 degrees from the front that would be helpful :)

I have a very long torso which is why i stopped pulling conventional, always found that my hips high i ended up too far over the bar. Me and ripping don't work, I find it very hard to pull fast, even at a very low weight I'm a slow puller

Will keep that In my i hate touch and go anyway find my form often slacks off a lot.

I will get some more angles next dead lift day, it felt a lot nicer so I'm glad you think the forms ok :) now to give your programme a blast and get some strength back
 
Soldato
Joined
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9,182
Can the OcUK experts give me some tips on eeking out my best performance?

I'm considering an attempt to beat my personal best at rowing 2000m on a rowing machine, set about 15 years ago (6m39s). After 14 years of doing very little exercise, I'd have never dreamt I'd be saying that, but I've spent the last year getting back in shape - losing some weight, and improving my strength and my CV fitness.

Today at lunch I had a go at 6 500m rows with 1 min rests in between, and managed to average splits of 1:38.6. Apparently this workout is a good marker for a sustainable pace in a 2k. That pace would put me on for 6m34.4s. I just want to go sub 6:39, but sub 6:35 would be amazing.

I've been skipping breakfast as part of my weight-loss efforts, and my legs were noticeably leaden towards the end. I had the definite sense of "no petrol left in the tank". So I'll try a bit of carb-loading the night before, and probably treat myself to some porridge for breakfast on the day.

I usually have a protein shake as my post-gym lunch (partly for recovery, and partly, again, for weight loss) but I don't really go in for other supplements.

I'm wondering about getting a bit of Creatine, and possibly some BCAAs - I used Creatine a long time ago, but not in any structured way, and I doubt it did anything. I vaguely remember feeling more energised when lifting while on it though, and my leaden legs are telling me this feeling of being energised might make for a nice change!

No idea about BCAAs, but understand that they *may* help, are fairly uncontroversial, and are easy to take.

Are these poor choices? Are there any other things I could consider?

I'd just like to try and create the best conditions possible to give this thing a shot.

Thanks a lot for any pointers.
 
Man of Honour
Joined
3 Apr 2003
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15,627
Location
Cambridge
Can the OcUK experts give me some tips on eeking out my best performance?

I'm considering an attempt to beat my personal best at rowing 2000m on a rowing machine, set about 15 years ago (6m39s). After 14 years of doing very little exercise, I'd have never dreamt I'd be saying that, but I've spent the last year getting back in shape - losing some weight, and improving my strength and my CV fitness.

Today at lunch I had a go at 6 500m rows with 1 min rests in between, and managed to average splits of 1:38.6. Apparently this workout is a good marker for a sustainable pace in a 2k. That pace would put me on for 6m34.4s. I just want to go sub 6:39, but sub 6:35 would be amazing.

I've been skipping breakfast as part of my weight-loss efforts, and my legs were noticeably leaden towards the end. I had the definite sense of "no petrol left in the tank". So I'll try a bit of carb-loading the night before, and probably treat myself to some porridge for breakfast on the day.

I usually have a protein shake as my post-gym lunch (partly for recovery, and partly, again, for weight loss) but I don't really go in for other supplements.

I'm wondering about getting a bit of Creatine, and possibly some BCAAs - I used Creatine a long time ago, but not in any structured way, and I doubt it did anything. I vaguely remember feeling more energised when lifting while on it though, and my leaden legs are telling me this feeling of being energised might make for a nice change!

No idea about BCAAs, but understand that they *may* help, are fairly uncontroversial, and are easy to take.

Are these poor choices? Are there any other things I could consider?

I'd just like to try and create the best conditions possible to give this thing a shot.

Thanks a lot for any pointers.

Creatine, citrulline malate and beta alanine will all help give you an edge... But that edge must sit on a bucketload of hard, serious training.

You need to rebuild your neuromuscular pathways, vasculature and cardeeyo before any supplements will make a difference. And weightliss in the process will make things miserable for a couple of weeks.

Keep your protein intake high (don't necessarily need brotein shakes for this) and keep your fats and carbs up high enough to not feel like you're dying, but always in a deficit.

If you want additional gains, the big powerlifting three (plus one) are also great (deadlift, squat, bench + row) and will do more than any supplements.
 
Soldato
Joined
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Posts
9,182
Creatine, citrulline malate and beta alanine will all help give you an edge... But that edge must sit on a bucketload of hard, serious training.

You need to rebuild your neuromuscular pathways, vasculature and cardeeyo before any supplements will make a difference. And weightliss in the process will make things miserable for a couple of weeks.

Keep your protein intake high (don't necessarily need brotein shakes for this) and keep your fats and carbs up high enough to not feel like you're dying, but always in a deficit.

If you want additional gains, the big powerlifting three (plus one) are also great (deadlift, squat, bench + row) and will do more than any supplements.
Thanks a lot. I'll look up citrulline malate and beta alanine - not heard of those. With Creatine, let's asking now sounds debatable - could I get a benefit from doing nothing other than 20g on the morning of my effort?

I think I'm ready physiologically ready to give this thing a crack now - I'm just being a pussy about it - I need to man up and go in the hurt box.

I was just after some supplements that might help.

As part of my years worth of getting back into fitness I've been doing some heavy weights - I've managed to up my previous pb in deadlift from 160 to 180. My squat form has always been woeful - bad buttwink, which I'm trying to resolve - but it's not causing me pain (yet). I'm at 130 (I think). My bench is worse, and I don't do rows. Room for improvement there. I hadn't really considered heavy rows - thanks for that suggestion.

I'd say my cardio is probably better than it's ever been. A heart rate monitor and a move out into the country with some running routes through woods, has made a massive impact on that.
 
Man of Honour
Joined
21 Nov 2004
Posts
45,105
Back home this weekend, 3 weeks before I go back to work, ready to hit it hard....and........I have toothache and a dental appointment in the middle of leg day. No idea whether big lifts will hurt or not. Hasn’t been my year in the gym. Will give it all I can I guess.

Any bulking tips? For when I can eat again :p
 
Man of Honour
Joined
3 Apr 2003
Posts
15,627
Location
Cambridge
Thanks a lot. I'll look up citrulline malate and beta alanine - not heard of those. With Creatine, let's asking now sounds debatable - could I get a benefit from doing nothing other than 20g on the morning of my effort?

No. None at all.

As part of my years worth of getting back into fitness I've been doing some heavy weights - I've managed to up my previous pb in deadlift from 160 to 180. My squat form has always been woeful - bad buttwink, which I'm trying to resolve - but it's not causing me pain (yet). I'm at 130 (I think). My bench is worse, and I don't do rows. Room for improvement there. I hadn't really considered heavy rows - thanks for that suggestion.

Post of a video of your squat and we can help.. if you want. ;) :D

Tiny bit of bicep soreness at the tendon I think. Will stop doing mixed grip deadlift for a while since I doubt that is helping.

Mixed grip is for lamers, anyway. :o :D
 
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