New E10 fuel

Nasher said:
Compatible doesn't mean it will run great on it. Just that it won't blow up or start leaking and **** petrol everywhere.
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It'll run absolutely no differently on 99.9% of cars on the road.

It'll have absolutely zero affect at part throttle while the ECU is operating in closed loop, and anywhere with the ECU in open loop fuelling it'll lean it out the tiniest amount which may actually pick up very small power increases
 
Ignoring how bad it feels running E10, it doesn't appear to cause any damage:


arfoll said:
You should run E10 all the time then I'd hear it...

It's not an issue in Europe either... Germany is full of E10 and cleared to use in nearly everything, including all new BMWs. Fyi weirdly my Mazda 3 MPs, which requires 98 octane, is E10 compatible according to mazda..
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Maybe you'd hear me if you stopped falling off your bike at the slightest hint of a corner :p

You listed two new cars. As I already said for new cars it should be designed to run fine. On a bike that already runs extremely lean (Euro 4 bikes for example) it causes issues, at least in my experience.
 
Kreeeee said:
Ignoring how bad it feels running E10, it doesn't appear to cause any damage:




Maybe you'd hear me if you stopped falling off your bike at the slightest hint of a corner :p

You listed two new cars. As I already said for new cars it should be designed to run fine. On a bike that already runs extremely lean (Euro 4 bikes for example) it causes issues, at least in my experience.
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The numerous new bikes I've had all run perfectly fine on E10, it isn't an issue. I've run them all stock and I've run them all tuned, no problems, great power, smooth running.
 
acemastr said:
The numerous new bikes I've had all run perfectly fine on E10, it isn't an issue. I've run them all stock and I've run them all tuned, no problems, great power, smooth running.
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My MT-10 is noticeably rougher whenever I visit France, so was my Street Triple.

I know that Yamaha motorcycles have a specific factory USA tune/ECU (usually with lower performance via richer fuelling such as with the MT-10) and E10 is probably one of the reasons why.

E10 isn't an issue when the vehicles are designed for it, so you will likely never have this problem in the US.
 
I've run the US and EU tune on my R1 and no noticeable difference.

These engines run rich anyway, they make more power with a richer mixture.
 
arfoll said:
Where you buying your fuel? Hard to find ethanol free... People misunderstand ethanol, it generally boosts octane levels so it can have some beneficial aspects as well as negative.
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We're still just holding on to some ethanol free fuel...

Esso super unleaded petrol (Synergy Supreme+ Unleaded 97) is ethanol free (except in Devon, Cornwall, the Teesside area and Scotland). We would therefore advise anyone who has concerns about the presence of ethanol in petrol to use Synergy Supreme+ – providing they do not fill up in Devon or Cornwall, the Teesside area or Scotland.
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BP Ultimate 97 is also ethanol free if you read a few difference internet sources.

Basically at the moment there's no requirement for super unleaded to have ethanol, but some fuel does have it to boost the octane rating, Tesco 99 and shell v-power does for instance (hence the lower 97 RON of BP and Esso super unleaded fuels.

TBH it's more a pain than anything else, when you take the tank off and it won't fit back on because it's swollen in size! My tank spent winter in the airing cupboard drying out ans shrinking back down in size!
 
TallPaul_S said:
We're still just holding on to some ethanol free fuel...



BP Ultimate 97 is also ethanol free if you read a few difference internet sources.

Basically at the moment there's no requirement for super unleaded to have ethanol, but some fuel does have it to boost the octane rating, Tesco 99 and shell v-power does for instance (hence the lower 97 RON of BP and Esso super unleaded fuels.

TBH it's more a pain than anything else, when you take the tank off and it won't fit back on because it's swollen in size! My tank spent winter in the airing cupboard drying out ans shrinking back down in size!
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Interesting. Something I noticed in the TT manual that I cannot remember being spelled out so clearly before was that you should fill to the first click and not attempt to squeeze any more fuel in to the tank, as that gap is supposed to be the expansion gap. If you fill more then you reduce/remove that gap, and that leaves what as the most likely result... tank expansion.

My older cars I never recall that being specifically stated, makes sense that if you fill a full tank then it could expand quite a lot.
 
"Most affected models
Volkswagen Golf (28,066)
MG MGB (20,890)
Mazda MX-5
(18,162)
Nissan Micra(15,785)
Morris Minor (12,796)
Rover 25 (9,879)
MG MGF (9,352)
Ford Escort (8,947)
Rover Mini (7,614)
MG TF (7,568)"

Mini and MGB :eek: GULP!
 
vanpeebles said:
"Most affected models
Volkswagen Golf (28,066)
MG MGB (20,890)
Mazda MX-5
(18,162)
Nissan Micra(15,785)
Morris Minor (12,796)
Rover 25 (9,879)
MG MGF (9,352)
Ford Escort (8,947)
Rover Mini (7,614)
MG TF (7,568)"

Mini and MGB :eek: GULP!
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Why gulp? It’s a complete none issue with 95 Ron still to be offered at all big petrol stations.

All the affected cars will be pre 2000 and I dare say 50% of the above won’t even make it another 2 years before being scrapped.
 
For any fellow older MX5 owners, just found out the following (from my local Mazda dealer):
- Mazda insist that go via your local dealer for info
- Mazda are currently collating the list of potentially affected cars, but have no timescales on completion of that, or whether that will also include a guide of "if you want your MX5 to be compatible, you need to do xyz..."
- I did ask if they could simply source that info from Mazda Germany, but apparently they don't talk to Mazda UK (guess they had a girlie spat a few years ago)
 
Berger said:
Why gulp? It’s a complete none issue with 95 Ron still to be offered at all big petrol stations.

All the affected cars will be pre 2000 and I dare say 50% of the above won’t even make it another 2 years before being scrapped.
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50% is a big number, especially for most of the old classics, if they are around now, I reckon they will see another 2 years easy enough :)
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Interesting. Something I noticed in the TT manual that I cannot remember being spelled out so clearly before was that you should fill to the first click and not attempt to squeeze any more fuel in to the tank, as that gap is supposed to be the expansion gap. If you fill more then you reduce/remove that gap, and that leaves what as the most likely result... tank expansion.

My older cars I never recall that being specifically stated, makes sense that if you fill a full tank then it could expand quite a lot.
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That's just to do with the fact that petrol expands when hot and if you're full to the brim you'll lose some out the heather/overflow pipe. Fuel tanks have to have a vent to the outside otherwise when you use up 20 litres of fuel there'd be no way of air replacing the fuel volume so you'd end up with a massive vacuum in the tank :D same goes for it expanding, the tank won't expand because of this.

The ethanol issue is with certain types of nylon (plastic) tanks which, when they absorb tiny amounts of water, expand. Ethanol contains water, petrol doesn't. Hence any fuel with a mixture of petrol and ethanol will contain some water and the tank absorbs this, expanding.
 
TallPaul_S said:
We're still just holding on to some ethanol free fuel...



BP Ultimate 97 is also ethanol free if you read a few difference internet sources.

Basically at the moment there's no requirement for super unleaded to have ethanol, but some fuel does have it to boost the octane rating, Tesco 99 and shell v-power does for instance (hence the lower 97 RON of BP and Esso super unleaded fuels.

TBH it's more a pain than anything else, when you take the tank off and it won't fit back on because it's swollen in size! My tank spent winter in the airing cupboard drying out ans shrinking back down in size!
Click to expand...
Last time I checked BP SU has ethanol although it’s regional for some reason so you can’t be 100% sure.

When I investigated a while ago I think it was Esso that didn’t have any ethanol is the majority of its SU but again it’s regional.
 
Will E10 be cheaper? Isn't the bulk of tax on the actual peyrol so this should be cheaper. Plus of it's less efficient you will need more of it to go as far.
 
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