New E10 fuel

adolf hamster · 28 Aug 2018 at 22:22

Wait did i just read "the increase in co2 output will be partially offset by the sustainable nature of the ethanol"

Because right now i'm thinking what's the damn point if its increasing pollution more than it reduces it?

Nasher · 28 Aug 2018 at 23:02

A renewable source of pollution, genius

acemastr · 28 Aug 2018 at 23:06

It's all E10 here, it's just normal.

Kreeeee · 28 Aug 2018 at 23:14

acemastr said:
It's all E10 here, it's just normal.

Your vehicle's are generally in a low state of tune and/or are designed for that fuel so it's not an issue there.

geekman · 28 Aug 2018 at 23:21

Kreeeee said:
My motorcycle runs like crap when I use E10 in France.

I know virtually nothing about bikes, but aren’t their engines fairly different to that of a car? Whenever I’ve glanced over at bikes in filling stations they always seem to be filling up with high octane fuel, so it doesn’t surprise me if they’re not designed for E10. I can’t see any normal modern car having any issues though.

Simon · 28 Aug 2018 at 23:33

European OEMs have been lobbying for years to not go above E5.

French government just went for it without really understanding the implications.

Kreeeee · 28 Aug 2018 at 23:35

geekman said:
I know virtually nothing about bikes, but aren’t their engines fairly different to that of a car? Whenever I’ve glanced over at bikes in filling stations they always seem to be filling up with high octane fuel, so it doesn’t surprise me if they’re not designed for E10. I can’t see any normal modern car having any issues though.

I use higher octane when I need those extra few miles from a tank, but even super bikes are designed to run on 95 just fine. When your low fuel light comes on at 120 miles just a few more miles from using premium fuel makes a big difference.

E10 makes my bike run hot and I get constant pops from the exhaust. The fuel range is worse and the cat is scorching after a tank of E10 too.

The only real difference with motorcycle engines is that they are in a higher state of tune, making 200bhp per 1000cc for decent bikes.

TallPaul_S · 29 Aug 2018 at 00:10

Ethanol also affects some plastic tanks on bikes - they'll swell by a good couple of cm in size. So long as some form of premium unleaded remains ethanol free I'm happy.

And yeah my 1000cc 140bhp v-twin runs so much better on premium ethanol free unleaded.

Diagro · 29 Aug 2018 at 00:16

Surely it won't matter much adding a further 5% to it?

Unless the grade of unleaded is reduced

breadturbo · 29 Aug 2018 at 00:29

The tank on my fazer is steel i think, so itll just rust

Amp34 · 29 Aug 2018 at 01:46

Kreeeee said:
Your vehicle's are generally in a low state of tune and/or are designed for that fuel so it's not an issue there.

You do know Americans have pretty much the same range of vehicles as in Europe right? Unless you’re talking about the highly tunes Skodas, Renault’s and Peugeot s?

Amp34 · 29 Aug 2018 at 01:48

adolf hamster said:
Wait did i just read "the increase in co2 output will be partially offset by the sustainable nature of the ethanol"

Because right now i'm thinking what's the damn point if its increasing pollution more than it reduces it?

Ethanol comes from plants, so you’re not releasing any more CO2 into the atmosphere (other than refining). Much like if you plant a tree then cut it down to burn in your stove you’re also carbon neutral.

theone8181 · 29 Aug 2018 at 07:28

Amp34 said:
You do know Americans have pretty much the same range of vehicles as in Europe right? Unless you’re talking about the highly tunes Skodas, Renault’s and Peugeot s?

Hes maybe thinking of all those massive engined american cars that put out 300hp

. American cars used to be nowhere near as efficient as our european ones, although i think the gap has closed a bit.

Simon · 29 Aug 2018 at 08:11

Diagro said:
Surely it won't matter much adding a further 5% to it?

Unless the grade of unleaded is reduced

You can use ethanol prop up octane to the minimum.

Don’t assume it just boosts octane, you can end up with strange ‘dumbbell’ type fuels which are a mix of heavy fuels and light ethanol (much like Chinese fuels) which can cause all sorts of issues with deposits etc. It’s not just the ethanol content but also what it means to the fuel mixture. For examples, if E10 becomes the norm then refineries output could be adjusted to still only just hit 95ron

Adding a further 5% won’t hurt ? Why not add another 5% and make it E15

adolf hamster · 29 Aug 2018 at 09:11

Amp34 said:
Ethanol comes from plants, so you’re not releasing any more CO2 into the atmosphere (other than refining). Much like if you plant a tree then cut it down to burn in your stove you’re also carbon neutral.

that's my point, the way the quote is written it sounds like the fuel emission increase is bigger than the offset from growing the ethanol in the first place, which defeats the purpose if your overall aim is to minimise emissions.

Nasher · 29 Aug 2018 at 09:55

Diagro said:
Surely it won't matter much adding a further 5% to it?

Unless the grade of unleaded is reduced

Makes a big difference. We would need to modify and/or re-tune many cars or they would run like crap. Going a further 5% up to 15% can kill some engines (using it voids the warranty on most!).

Ethanol also attracts moisture, so your taking more water in to the engine with it. Which isn't great for the engine's longevity.

Kreeeee · 29 Aug 2018 at 10:09

Amp34 said:
You do know Americans have pretty much the same range of vehicles as in Europe right? Unless you’re talking about the highly tunes Skodas, Renault’s and Peugeot s?

Unless I'm mistaken older American cars handle E10 better than older European cars. In both countries it's not a problem for modern cars.

Berger · 29 Aug 2018 at 10:22

Nasher said:
Makes a big difference. We would need to modify and/or re-tune many cars or they would run like crap. Going a further 5% up to 15% can kill some engines (using it voids the warranty on most!).

Ethanol also attracts moisture, so your taking more water in to the engine with it. Which isn't great for the engine's longevity.

The article I read said that 9800 Rover 25s will be affected if it is introduced in 2020....

Of the top ten cars affected, 6 were Rover/MG.

Total none issue for the vast majority of the population, and 95 ron will remain in use on another pump as it does in all the other countries that have it.

https://www.acea.be/uploads/publications/130329_(revised)_ALL_ACEA_SAAB_JAMA_E10_COMPATIBILITY.pdf

Basically if your car is less than 20 years old when this is introduced you don’t have to worry.

And if it is greater than that then petrol stations will still sell 95 Ron as well. Case closed.

glenimp617 · 29 Aug 2018 at 11:17

IF it's cheaper I'm all for it

Would rather the government concentrated on electric though

acemastr · 29 Aug 2018 at 13:43

Kreeeee said:
Unless I'm mistaken older American cars handle E10 better than older European cars. In both countries it's not a problem for modern cars.

They aren't much different here anymore.

Older cars can have issues with rusting fuel tanks as the ethanol picks up water, same with dirt bikes, but really not a big deal if used regularly.