Buyers rights

[joedeath332]

I was just checking out the price of the 1080ti's on overclockers when at the top of the search for the 1080ti's was the rtx 2070 so I just wanted to see if any specs were listed in its description to compare them, that is when I noticed this in the description which I'm sure comes from Nvidia and not overclockers.

The GeForce RTX 2070 delivers truly unique real-time ray-tracing technologies for cutting-edge, hyper-realistic graphics, this means the RTX 2070 is light years ahead of other cards and gives you the most realistic gaming experience ever. The RTX cards also are the first graphics cards to feature GDDR6 memory that has a speed of 14Gbps (14,000 MHz).

So if iwere to buy this card and find the 1080ti kicks it butt, where would I stand legally if I was dissatisfied and felt miss sold this product.
bearing in mind how old the 1080ti is.

 

[KillBoY_UK]

#Context

 

[Paladine]

If you buy the card online you have 14 days to send it back for whatever reason you like under distance selling regulations. If you go beyond that deadline and then decide you don't feel the advertising was true you can file complaints under various consumer protection regulations and advertising standards.

 

[kevman]

This could be the biggest legal upset since macdonalds did not put a "caution hot" warning on their cups

 

[Marine-RX179]

If you buy the card online you have 14 days to send it back for whatever reason you like under distance selling regulations. If you go beyond that deadline and then decide you don't feel the advertising was true you can file complaints under various consumer protection regulations and advertising standards.

The thing is though they can get away with sensational advertisement like these using vague wording such as this. By light years ahead of "other cards", they could well argue the RTX2070 is light years ahead of the legendarily bad GeForce FX 5200

 

[Legend]

Well look at the phrasing of that sentence...

"RTX 2070 delivers truly unique real-time ray-tracing technologies for cutting-edge, hyper-realistic graphics, this means the RTX 2070 is light years ahead of other cards and gives you the most realistic gaming experience ever"

They are referring to ray-tracing, and in that respect they are correct. The 2070/2080/2080Ti all possess hardware and software features that are simply not present on Pascal or any previous card.

This could be the biggest legal upset since macdonalds did not put a "caution hot" warning on their cups

Hardly. As above, they are speaking to ray-tracing, which previous cards cannot do. They have not said anything here which we don't already know... i.e Turing architecture is indeed offering something that Pascal cannot achieve. The use of the phrase "light years ahead" is non-specific... it's pure marketing speak.

Techincally and legally speaking, if the card does something that previous cards cannot... and it will in respect to anything RTX specific... then they're covered. Even if it performs worse in certain scenarios than a 1080Ti. Crazy, but that's the way it is.

 

[Paladine]

Well look at the phrasing of that sentence...

"RTX 2070 delivers truly unique real-time ray-tracing technologies for cutting-edge, hyper-realistic graphics, this means the RTX 2070 is light years ahead of other cards and gives you the most realistic gaming experience ever"

They are referring to ray-tracing, and in that respect they are correct. The 2070/2080/2080Ti all possess hardware and software features that are simply not present on Pascal or any previous card.




Hardly. As above, they are speaking to ray-tracing, which previous cards cannot do. They have not said anything here which we don't already know... i.e Turing architecture is indeed offering something that Pascal cannot achieve. The use of the phrase "light years ahead" is non-specific... it's pure marketing speak.

Techincally and legally speaking, if the card does something that previous cards cannot... and it will in respect to anything RTX specific... then they're covered. Even if it performs worse in certain scenarios than a 1080Ti. Crazy, but that's the way it is.

I am not particularly interested in the quote above - there have been many statements made which if untrue would be legally considered as misleading such as the 35-45% faster than previous gen statement. Plus the law doesn't state the the statement has to be untrue - it is enough to show that people would be misled from the statement irrespective of whether it is technically true or not.

 

[Legend]

I am not particularly interested in the quote above - there have been many statements made which if untrue would be legally considered as misleading such as the 35-45% faster than previous gen statement. Plus the law doesn't state the the statement has to be untrue - it is enough to show that people would be misled from the statement irrespective of whether it is technically true or not.

What's the context of that statement though? I think if you actually look closer, there is a lot of wiggle room with things like this. Are they referring to specific settings for example? Many, many loopholes here. Advertising and marketing is all smoke and mirrors. If such things were so easily open to legal action the legal system would grind to a hault with all sorts of absurd claims.

 

[joedeath332]

I am not particularly interested in the quote above - there have been many statements made which if untrue would be legally considered as misleading such as the 35-45% faster than previous gen statement. Plus the law doesn't state the the statement has to be untrue - it is enough to show that people would be misled from the statement irrespective of whether it is technically true or not.

This is why I posted it as when I read it that is the part that caught my eyes about it being light years ahead.

 

[Paladine]

N

What's the context of that statement though? I think if you actually look closer, there is a lot of wiggle room with things like this. Are they referring to specific settings for example? Many, many loopholes here. Advertising and marketing is all smoke and mirrors. If such things were so easily open to legal action the legal system would grind to a hault with all sorts of absurd claims.

o - consumer protection laws are designed to protect consumers - there is very little wriggle room and regulators come down hard on companies who have been seen to mislead consumers. In some cases in the UK it is a criminal offence to mislead consumers.

 

[Legend]

N

o - consumer protection laws are designed to protect consumers - there is very little wriggle room and regulators come down hard on companies who have been seen to mislead consumers. In some cases in the UK it is a criminal offence to mislead consumers.

Yesss, of course such laws exist to protect consumers, but HOW have they been mislead in this instance exactly?? Not that we know anything about these cards performance yet anyway, so it's pure speculation, but what are you hypothetically suggesting exactly?

You seem to be getting confused with advertsing & marketing techniques and strategies, and what would be considered actual false/misleading advertising (such that laws were breached). They're not the same thing. Nvidia can quite legitimately say "light years ahead"... it doesn't mean they need to have invented an interstellar spaceship, travelled to another galaxy and brought back technology from an alien race to implement in their new GPUs.

 

[Paladine]

I am not saying they have been misled - I sure as hell hope not, I bought 2 2080Ti . I said IF and of course we won't know that until we have the cards and benchmarks

If they do not perform 35-45% faster in most situations that alone would be enough under consumer protection law to be classified as misleading.

 

[Legend]

I am not saying they have been misled - I sure as hell hope not, I bought 2 2080Ti . I said IF and of course we won't know that until we have the cards and benchmarks

If they do not perform 35-45% faster in most situations that alone would be enough under consumer protection law to be classified as misleading.

But what if they perform 35-45% faster after tinkering with settings, even if things have to be turned down? Have they promised or given specifics in this regard?

 

[Stanners]

I am not saying they have been misled - I sure as hell hope not, I bought 2 2080Ti . I said IF and of course we won't know that until we have the cards and benchmarks

If they do not perform 35-45% faster in most situations that alone would be enough under consumer protection law to be classified as misleading.

Interesting, can you point me towards the 35-45% faster part of the consumer protection law.

 

[Paladine]

Interesting, can you point me towards the 35-45% faster part of the consumer protection law.

the 35-45% was the number given by Nvidia in an interview - if the performance improvements like for like are not averaging at that level that would be misleading under consumer protection law. The law states that you cannot mislead consumers it doesn't say you can only mislead consumers unto 35% of the time lol

 

[Paladine]

For clarification: Regulation 5 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 states:

5.—(1) A commercial practice is a misleading action if it satisfies the conditions in either paragraph (2) or paragraph (3).

(2) A commercial practice satisfies the conditions of this paragraph—

(a)if it contains false information and is therefore untruthful in relation to any of the matters in paragraph (4) or if it or its overall presentation in any way deceives or is likely to deceive the average consumer in relation to any of the matters in that paragraph, even if the information is factually correct; and

(b)it causes or is likely to cause the average consumer to take a transactional decision he would not have taken otherwise.

(which is based on EU law so is the same across the EU).

 

[Legend]

the 35-45% was the number given by Nvidia in an interview - if the performance improvements like for like are not averaging at that level that would be misleading under consumer protection law. The law states that you cannot mislead consumers it doesn't say you can only mislead consumers unto 35% of the time lol

This is hilarious and you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. First of all, if that was in an interview, they aren't 'advertising' anything. Second, as I've stated, even if that was an official advertising stated figure, they aren't giving any settings indicators... for example, if it was stated that a 2080Ti will deliver 35-45% performance improvement at 4K Ultra settings etc. etc. etc. vs the same settings on a 1080Ti... THEN you might have a point. But they aren't saying that and never would, for a multitude of very obvious reasons, not least because the GPU isn't the only component in a system which determines that performance improvement.

There is no evidence Nvidia are remotely in breach of any of those regulations you've listed, and I GUARANTEE you that whatever their advertising and marketing material says, either now or in the future, none of it will be either. They have teams of lawyers and experts going over all this stuff and trust me, they cover themselves, and there will be disclaimers aplenty that preclude any possibilty of false/misleading claims (in the eyes of the law anyway). How YOU choose to interpret that advertising is something else, but legally speaking, no, don't start getting all excited about the prospect of taking Nvidia to court... sorry to burst your bubble on that one.

 

[five8five]

I am not saying they have been misled - I sure as hell hope not, I bought 2 2080Ti . I said IF and of course we won't know that until we have the cards and benchmarks

If they do not perform 35-45% faster in most situations that alone would be enough under consumer protection law to be classified as misleading.

"Most situations" is vague to start with. I haven't seen that advertised with the cards though. As they haven't been officially released yet aren't the specs subject to change? Drivers are currently being worked on so performance will be evolving.

But what if they perform 35-45% faster after tinkering with settings, even if things have to be turned down? Have they promised or given specifics in this regard?

When the official specs are released (media day), slides will shown with usual disclaimers - cards used, driver versions, game versions, resolutions, settings etc etc.

I think only from that point could Nvidia be held accountable.

 

[bigmike20vt]

The thing is though they can get away with sensational advertisement like these using vague wording such as this. By light years ahead of "other cards", they could well argue the RTX2070 is light years ahead of the legendarily bad GeForce FX 5200

isnt that what Remington did when someone sued over their 70's / 80's electric razor advert tag "As close as a blade or your money back!" ****

****this may not be true!

 

[Paladine]

This is hilarious and you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. First of all, if that was in an interview, they aren't 'advertising' anything. Second, as I've stated, even if that was an official advertising stated figure, they aren't giving any settings indicators... for example, if it was stated that a 2080Ti will deliver 35-45% performance improvement at 4K Ultra settings etc. etc. etc. vs the same settings on a 1080Ti... THEN you might have a point. But they aren't saying that and never would, for a multitude of very obvious reasons, not least because the GPU isn't the only component in a system which determines that performance improvement.

There is ZERO evidence Nvidia are remotely in breach of any of those laws, and I GUARANTEE you that whatever their advertising and marketing material says, either now or in the future, will not be either. They have teams of lawyers and experts going over all this stuff and trust me, they cover themselves, and there will be disclaimers aplenty that preclude any possibilty of false/misleading claims.

An interview regarding a product launch is technically classed as a marketing activity - and I suggest you actually read the law and historical case law relating to the Regulation before accusing people of not knowing what they are talking about - it seems the only ignorant one here is in fact you.

Furthermore I have never stated they are misleading (in fact I have stated the exact opposite) - I said to the OP if they feel they have been misled they can take a claim under consumer protection law.

I have been supporting Nvidia since the new cards were released and continue to do so - but if the information they have stated is not accurate it will be considered as misleading under the law - whether you like that or believe that, frankly I couldn't give a **** - your opinion means jack to me