Great idea. That's what detention should be IMO, as long as it's not sadistic otherwise you might as well wallop them.
Georgia school to ask parents to paddle students as punishment
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Great idea. That's what detention should be IMO, as long as it's not sadistic otherwise you might as well wallop them.
So you are saying there is no corelacorre between schools and parents going soft to the lack of respect from youths
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I hated it, I preferred to be hit.
Soldato
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This topic is making everyone come out with their fetishes it seems. lol
Speak for yourself.
Although I was beasted in a swimming pool more than once, by a female instructor. "I'll make you sweat in water!" she said. My keel was instantly deployed.
Edot: She was an ex (and not by too many years by the look of her) top amateur swimmer, and easily ****** us up within 30 mins. Some were literally on the verge of drowning, which wasn't very nice. (It was very high intesity stuff with short pauses - treading water- we weren't allowed to touch the sides of the pool throughout.)
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Man of Honour
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If that's aimed at me I hated running, hated PE and hated detention - it was easier to have a one second hit than to go through the other torture.
And how can you talk about fetishes?
This and like @RDM says about these kids already being familiar with violence shows its just not an effective punishment. at least not at a level any conscionable adult would dish out.
Detentions, removal from class or other punishments seem much more effective as a deterrent
That was a thing when I went to school. It was called PE and was mandatory
In secondary school the head of PE was also the chap responsible for behaviour and ultimately punishment. He'd bring those in detention out to the football pitches/concrete playground depending on weather, space them about 10ft apart along the perimeter of a pitch then sit in a deck chair and watch us stand in silence, motionless. Anyone seen talking had their clock reset, anyone he didn't like got their clock reset at random. It was effective and boring as ****, hellish in winter.
That would be some kind of abuse now
Soldato
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That was a thing when I went to school. It was called PE and was mandatory
In secondary school the head of PE was also the chap responsible for behaviour and ultimately punishment. He'd bring those in detention out to the football pitches/concrete playground depending on weather, space them about 10ft apart along the perimeter of a pitch then sit in a deck chair and watch us stand in silence, motionless. Anyone seen talking had their clock reset, anyone he didn't like got their clock reset at random. It was effective and boring as ****, hellish in winter.
That would be some kind of abuse now
PE and PT are very.. very different.
PE is cocking around in a field kicking a ball, maybe running a lap of a field once a year. Learning about various physical activities. PT is being thrashed until your lungs fall out of your ****.
This subject as come up multiple times on the forum. The Crime Survey doesn't cover the crimes that have gone up, and the police statistics show crime as gone up. The only crime that as come down massively (distorting the overall percentage level) is computer misuse crimes i.e. people writing naughty words online. They came down 33% in the last crime survey.
The kids we're talking about will tell you to F off or worse.
Yes Yes... and it's been studied to death, it's been shown that it doesn't work which is why most of the civilised world doesn't do it anymore and bans it.
Oh how high brow, we was civilised. These days a disabled woman as flour thrown over her and humiliated as pictures are taken and put on the online.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...e-yobs-covered-disabled-woman-flour-eggs.html
Very civilised
You can't have it both ways. You're arguing against corporal punishment, and admit that most people don't do it anymore. But in the story link above you have no comment about those types of kids, who was probably never spanked or these days the parents dont discipline them at all, just dump them at school.. stories like the above are common place these days. The lack of respect on this level wasn't there before. Kids would have been either ashamed to be caught or scared to be found out.
I think the majority of kids these days don't have any physical discipline at all. Now look around at todays society. The disrespect. Spitting in the polices face, violently attacking vulnerable people, laughing about it, sticking fingers up at people, posting their exploits online even though they know they will get caught but they dont give a f..udge about it.
If you're going to have an opinion then acknowledge its results. Don't complain about kids being disrespectful because thats how you have allowed them to get away with it.
I wonder what the advocators of passive discipline would do if one of the modern parents setups moved in next door to them. Parents that don't bother with the kids. The kids jumping around in your yard/garden. They being a general nuisance. The sad thing these days if you go around to complain you better hope the parents are reasonable or you might end up with some more immediate problems.
Youre talking about every kid in every school though when it comes to policy.
If you think the kid will tell you to f off for pt or detention how the **** do you think you're gonna get them to bend over while you spank them?
Well in fairness that doesn't make you old because it's only become taboo in the last 20 years. Too many parents these days want to be mates with their children instead of parent them, that's why you get nonsense these days like "video game addiction" which is a PC term for **** parenting lol.
Soldato
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I think you and I have quite differing world views. I'm just not sold that corporal punishment is the best and only way of instilling respect and and understanding of consequences into kids. I started secondary school during the mid-nineties, so I never had to experience corporal punishment. We had kids in our school who could be described as wrong uns, one guy who I believe is in prison for armed robbery, a few more on drugs charges, it wasn't a fantastic catchment during my time there though things have improved. Now, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that the kids who went off the rails in my year and surrounding years weren't the ones who lacked physical discipline, I can say with some certainty that they came from families where the default response to spilling something on the carpet was a slap round the face. In fact in my tight friendship group the only person who really went off the rails in his teenage years was the guy who I would later find out didn't have the happiest of relationships with his parents and grew up in a disciplinarian, almost 50's style family environment centred around Christianity and physical discipline.
Now I can't get access to school exclusion data for the time period prior to the banning or corporal punishment, I can however see that between 97/98 and 11/12 there was a downward trajectory despite the lack of corporal punishment. Now, that has begun creeping up again recently, coincidentally at the same time as the bite from cuts to services will have started to be felt. So, a falling trend in exclusions despite a lack of corporal punishment, followed by a rise around the same time that funding for schools. policing, social services, LAs and childrens services is decimated? I think you may be chasing the wrong culprit.
There is also the question of whether or not respect was any higher back when corporal punishment was allowed. My Dad might have doffed his cap at a policeman to avoid a clip around the ear but I guarantee that he was out doing worse crap than my generation was under cover of darkness. For that matter, corporal punishment was banned in state schools in 1986, why has it taken until recent years for the situation to become a concern, surely this supposed rise in the lack of respect and crime should have come about much sooner than this?
This is just another example of people seeing a problem and knee jerking there way to, "well in my day we hit kids, and i loved my childhood so everything must have been better then. Let's go back to physically disciplining kids". It's no different to Michael Gove waltzing in and declaring that things were much better when schools taught Latin.
I don't to be their mate, I want their trust and respect, I always had a healthy fear of my parents when I was young, There was always an imagined line that I dare not cross.
Man of Honour
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100% for me.
I explained that I lived 7 miles away which was two school buses but without those buses it was hard work and took twice as long with another shouting/smack when I got home because I couldn't tell my Mum it was detention so let her believe I'd stayed out late.
I hated being sent on a run which only happened in PE lessons anyway but I would have preferred the PE teacher to cane me and then let me play football because I was so physical I was going to come off in pain anyway.
Every kid won't have corporal punishment. The rules will be told to the students at the start of each term. They will know the punishment if they step out of line.
I think when we talk about these things there are probably 3 types of kid. The first will always follow the rules and never be punished to that level. The second group can be weak willed and susceptable to peer pressure. This group is the one that corporal punishment is trying to correct. Then the third group will always be in trouble and any punishment will have no effect on them.
I don't think schools would need to do this sort of thing if the parents brought the kids up right. Sadly I think some of the parents were born in the era of corporal punishment and suddenly just got detection, or a time out. So continued to be a disruptive influence. They now have kids of their own so they haven't brought them up right and now school and the wider society is having to deal with it.
I agree though allowing school teachers who don't know the kid to be giving out corporal punishment sits uneasy with me too. I'd much rather the parents be properly disciplining their kids, and if little Johnny as trashed the neighbours garden then I want the parent to be telling Johnny to help clean up the mess, with the help of the parent if needs be.
Soldato
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It's been shown, by the bastions of non-violent methods, that actually not even the experts can agree whether it does or not...Yes Yes... and it's been studied to death, it's been shown that it doesn't work which is why most of the civilised world doesn't do it anymore and bans it.
Less, you say?
Robbery up 35%
Homicide up 26%
Sexual assault up 24%
Attempted murder up 20%
Rape up 19%
Assault with injury or intent up 15%
Threats to kill up 11%
ONS stats comparing 2016 to 2017
Yeah, great job. Keep cuddling that kid every time it does something wrong. Your infinite love is enhancing it's kundalini and your child's chakhras love you for it!!
There's a big difference between spanking and hitting.
Is that why I got so many detentions, then? Because I was being deterred?
******** - I didn't want to do my homework and that was it.
I got a couple of Saturday detentions, including the one for beating the **** out of a bully (who got the same deal, because he was a bully), but nothing like that ever deterred me.
I've never said it is either the best or the only way... Much of this depends entirely on the individual rugrat.
However it is effective, and especially so when used properly.
Most decent parents would consider that an excessive response. Punishment has to be fair and commensurate.
I'd have expected that sort of response when I took a gun into school, threw a knife at someone, or beat someone up... as is, I got away extremely lightly when I did all of these. The last time (that I recall) I got a slap aross the face was when I stabbed my sister with a fork.
I will speak to a couple of teachers I know (one of whom works at a known 'problem' school in Slough) and see what they have to say regarding this...
My dad was in Borstal (never found out what for) and still fractured the occasional law, although that was par for the course in a lower Working Class environment back then... and yet, until I joined the Forces, he was the biggest champion of lines you don't cross and respects you must have. My mother was raised quite hoity-toity with lots of social ettiquette and stuff, but my 'criminal' father was the one who taught me manners and decency.
Various public services and industries were privatised in the 1980s and, as with lack of discipline, people have been complaining ever since, but it's only now that it's become a concern serious enough for re-nationalisation to become an idea sufficiently viable for major parties to advocate it with any real intent.
This is not a new argument, by any means!!!!!
I've been hearing this said by both my own generation and older, for decades.
There's no such line nowadays. All they have to do is phone Childline or the cops and cry rape, child abuse, violence and whatever. There's a wealth of do-gooders queueing up to psychoanalyse your kid, and bang you up for something....!!