Am I very wasteful with my money or is it the norm these days

[Housey]

As has already been pointed out you clearly bought at the right time which was nothing other than luck. Stop kidding yourself you did something clever or hard. That goes for most baby boomers that insist millennials just need to knuckle down and stop eating avocados.

lol. Just lol. That's almost sig-worthy. "I got lucky with the housing market therefore I'm entitled to ***** my money away and complain when I think anyone else is doing the same". Good job. It's that sort of attitude that really makes me wish the housing market completely and utterly tanks.

Here's some terrible science from the DM; https://www.dailymail.co.uk/property/article-4290586/Homeowners-earn-property-work.html

Baby boomers be like "there's no problem with housing affordability" whilst watching bricks and mortar literally earn more than average salaries How are you supposed to save for a house when said house is earning more than you? lol.

https://www.boredpanda.com/funny-baby-boomer-complaints-comebacks-millennials/ personally I like #5.

London is too expensive for you that much we can probably agree on.

So move.

But no, that is a big decision, you want all the London stuff, you have a job there. I get that, totally understand the 'but why should I have to move' I have always lived there.

Well it got expensive, much more than you can afford if you want a house.

My example shows where I lived, it's not really that much different in the grand scale of things. You can moan about it all the time, tell me how lucky I am, how I don't understand. You can put up with it. Or you can change the circumstance, or earn more. Those are you options, but they are all within your control.

To add the REALLY easy one is to keep moaning of course. I REALLY get its harder, so what you going to do to fix it?

 

[IvanDobskey]

Go on then I'll bite. Tell us how much you saved (or a %age if you'd rather) of your income every month, for how long, to what deposit amount, before you purchased your house. Because I'm betting it's nothing impressive. Prove me wrong.

I've been saving every single month since I started working in London 12 years ago on minimum wage. To sit there and insinuate I haven't worked as hard as you is not only wrong but quite offensive. The facts and stats prove beyond all doubt that you were in the right place, nothing more. My landlords bought a £270k flat pre-2007, then in 2007 were 'lucky' enough to inherit some money and so bought the upstairs flat for a similar price, to rent out. They're now sitting on 2x £650k goldmines 11 years later. Do they sit there and say "well we worked hard for that" -- no. They know they've basically won the lottery of life and are all set, by nothing more than sheer circumstance of this ridiculous bubble.

There's plenty of statistics out there. Here's one; https://www.theguardian.com/money/2...rice-times-annual-salary-official-figures-ons Gosh, judging by those bar charts one could almost say it's twice as hard to afford a house wherever you are in the country...

And to your second point. This isn't a theory. It is fact and well-documented.

I haven't said you haven't worked hard

You could easily buy your own property if you wanted it enough.

Just not in London

 

[Uther]

Yeah I don't think there's going to be a lot of sympathy because you can't afford a house in one of the most expensive cities in the world.

 

[Scam]

London is too expensive for you that much we can probably agree on.

The point is that it's not just too expensive for me -- it's too expensive for everyone. The average salary in London is ~£39k whereas the average price for a house in London is £468k so that's more than 10x the average salary. I'm not complaining on behalf of myself, I'm complaining on behalf of everyone. I also follow Shelter's work, support homeless charities, renter's rights and get involved where I can in all sorts of things.

Suggesting people do things for their own is fine, I'm arguing for the greater good that this bubble is not right and should not be accepted as the norm. The last few years have shown cities like Manchester to have property prices easily outstripping local workers. If this continues are we all just going to sit back and say "move". Because when it starts happening in Birmingham, Leeds (wherever) there will be nowhere else to move to! In fact Manchester had the fastest house price growth quite recently, London was nowhere near; https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money...th-followed-Liverpool-7-2-Birmingham-6-8.html Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham, Leicester, Cardiff, Sheffield, Nottingham... all posting higher inflation than London. And we talk about 8% inflation on a house as if it's normal. 8% of a (figure out of thing air) £200k house in Manchester is £16k. That's probably more than a lot of people earn right?

The reason I don't move or "do anything" is because I'm actually in a decent position of having lived with my girlfriend in our flat for a long period of time. We are renting from good landlords at a good price and this is enabling us to enjoy life and save a lot. If we get kicked out and forced to pay market rates where we live in west London, we'd reconsider. So as it is, I'll continue moaning thanks

EDIT: Oh and this is a timeley article eh? https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money...rd-cheapest-homes-area-researchers-finds.html

Even the cheapest homes are out of reach for four in ten young adults, research has found.

Around 40 per cent would not be able to buy one of the cheapest homes in their area even if they managed to save a 10 per cent deposit, according to the Institute for Fiscal Studies.

In 1996, over 90 per cent of 25- to 34-year-olds with a 10 per cent deposit would have been able to purchase a house in their area if they borrowed four-and-a-half times their salary.

 

[Raymond Lin]

If London is too expensive to buy and you have to buy then the only thing to do is move.

You just have to weigh up how important you think home ownership is vs everything else like cost of living, friends, job or even crime rate etc.

I've never lived in London, but have plenty of friends living there, most rent, a couple of them own flats, one even in W1 postcode but in order to do that, you need to have the means, if you don't have the means you just need to move and adjust.

I couldn't afford to live in London except for 2 weeks stint on friend's sofa, well, maybe I could but my standard of living would go way down. My lifestyle isn't one where I go out a lot, I wouldn't take advantage of what London has to offer anyway so all that money spent living there would be a waste. I must be getting old but I like to be able to walk to town if I want to, I like to have my own drive to park my car, I like to be able to move things between the car and the house without having to lock either behind me for a few minutes and nothing will get nicked (not that I do that due to habit). Sure Heathrow is 2 hours away and Gatwick is 3 hours but I don't feel like I am missing out.

 

[touch]

Oh yes, it's just luck I managed to save up a deposit and luck I bought at the right time

Just luck I ploughed all my spare money into overpayments.

Just luck I went without loads of stuff, drove an old banger for years.

Just luck...

You earned less than 66% of the average wage when you bought your house. That's equvalent to £18,180 today.
Your deposit was 80% of your annual salary, so would be £14544 today

Therefor, the maximum house value you could afford at today's rates would be £14,544 + £81,810 = £96,354

The house you did buy is worth £140,000 today so you wouldn't even be close to the affordability range for that house if you were in the same situation today as you were when you bought it.

If you wanted to buy it, you'd need to increase your deposit by another 300% - you have only saved a quarter of what is required.
All the hardship you put yourself though and the years of driving a banger was only a quarter of what you would need to do now.

 

[IvanDobskey]

You earned less than 66% of the average wage when you bought your house. That's equvalent to £18,180 today.
Your deposit was 80% of your annual salary, so would be £14544 today

Therefor, the maximum house value you could afford at today's rates would be £14,544 + £81,810 = £96,354

The house you did buy is worth £140,000 today so you wouldn't even be close to the affordability range for that house if you were in the same situation today as you were when you bought it.

If you wanted to buy it, you'd need to increase your deposit by another 300% - you have only saved a quarter of what is required.
All the hardship you put yourself though and the years of driving a banger was only a quarter of what you would need to do now.

There are still cheaper houses than mine in the area though.

I would still have been able to buy something, even if it was only a one bedroom place.

At least it gets you on the ladder.

Yeah I don't think there's going to be a lot of sympathy because you can't afford a house in one of the most expensive cities in the world.

This in a nutshell.

I mean seriously, how many people can afford a house in London?

The guy just needs to do what most other people who work in London do, commute.

Personally, I wouldn't want to work or live in London, but that's just me.

 

[touch]

There are still cheaper houses than mine in the area though.
I would still have been able to buy something, even if it was only a one bedroom place.

I suppose that's a fair point. It still shows that like-for-like you wouldn't have been able to do today what you were able to do all those years ago.

 

[IvanDobskey]

I suppose that's a fair point. I had thought you were suggesting that yours was one of the cheaper ones around:

It was one of the cheaper two bed semis in the area at the time. It's probably only worth 140k due to all the work I have put into it inside and out. It even has gas central heating now, where it didn't even have a gas connection when I bought it.

There are still one bed places in the area now for about 100k though.

 

[touch]

It was one of the cheaper two bed semis in the area at the time.
There are still one bed places in the area now for about 100k though.

I edited that post now - I thought I might have been a bit harsh on your house

 

[IvanDobskey]

I edited that post now - I thought I might have been a bit harsh on your house

No offense taken

It was a bit of a bum hole for quite some time. I have put a lot of work into it over the years.

 

[Janesy B]

The situations people get themselves into..

I would only have kids if i earned enough so that my gf/wife could be at home. Otherwise it just makes life complicated juggling kids and working full time. Its just stress that cna be avoided.

Well it depends as it can affect long term prospects, and employers seem to discriminate against people who have had extended breaks to raise a family.

Oh yes, it's just luck I managed to save up a deposit and luck I bought at the right time

Just luck I ploughed all my spare money into overpayments.

Just luck I went without loads of stuff, drove an old banger for years.

Just luck...

The luck is being able to buy a house after those sacrifices, some people wouldn't even be able to do that.

 

[FISHGUTS]

Just bought a 2 bed mid terrace house to do up & sell on for 67k(Cumbria)

 

[ttaskmaster]

And to your second point. This isn't a theory. It is fact and well-documented.

Well there ya go then - If even an innumerate like me can figure the statistics without even looking at them, they must be fairly accurate.

The guy just needs to do what most other people who work in London do, commute.

Err, no thanks.
The last thing *I* need is people whining about not affording London to then come here and make MY life unaffordable, just so they can commute!!

There are still one bed places in the area now for about 100k though.

HOW much??!!
My parents' 3-bed semi in Rickmansworth sold for only £44k!!

The luck is being able to buy a house after those sacrifices, some people wouldn't even be able to do that.

Yep - Some people aren't even lucky enough to afford an old banger...

 

[IvanDobskey]

The luck is being able to buy a house after those sacrifices, some people wouldn't even be able to do that.

That's mostly down to location though I'd say.

Can always move somewhere cheaper to buy. People just don't like to do that.

I don't feel I was lucky at all. I just saved hard for a big enough deposit then bought what I could. Then there were some tough years counting the pennies until my wages went up enough to start doing the place up and paying the mortgage off.

 

[Maccy]

My parents' 3-bed semi in Rickmansworth sold for only £44k!!

That must've been quite a while ago?!

 

[dowie]

I've been saving every single month since I started working in London 12 years ago on minimum wage. To sit there and insinuate I haven't worked as hard as you is not only wrong but quite offensive. The facts and stats prove beyond all doubt that you were in the right place, nothing more. My landlords bought a £270k flat pre-2007, then in 2007 were 'lucky' enough to inherit some money and so bought the upstairs flat for a similar price, to rent out. They're now sitting on 2x £650k goldmines 11 years later. Do they sit there and say "well we worked hard for that" -- no. They know they've basically won the lottery of life and are all set, by nothing more than sheer circumstance of this ridiculous bubble.

But you've posted before on this, you don't have to live in a 650k flat, most people can't afford a 650k flat, that doesn't imply that you couldn't necessarily buy in London at all... if you'd lived somewhere else and looked to buy somewhere else then perhaps you could have had a property for a few years by now, especially if there are two of you putting money away towards a deposit.

A few years ago you could buy a one bed flat in parts of South East London for under 200k and a 2 bed for a little bit over 200k. They're now worth closer to 300k these days, it would only have taken a rather modest deposit a few years ago. In fact in some cases there were developments where the developer would have put up part of your deposit for a 180k flat - they'd now be worth circa 300k too and so you could have bought with a relatively small deposit and re-mortgaged...

I mean I bought a few years ago, I made the choice to move from an expensive area (Islington) to a much cheaper one in order to do so and my mortgage is now less than the cost of even renting a room in a shared flat these days.

 

[Kreeeee]

.

 

[ttaskmaster]

Can always move somewhere cheaper to buy. People just don't like to do that.

Of course they don't!!
People spend decades doing everything you've done and more, scrimping and saving just to buy a small place and put down roots, often with children involved... I don't think you get how much of a disruptive impact it can have on a family, to just up roots and move - It's not just swapping a house like you would a car, it's moving your entire life.

Commuting often isn't an option, either, as that can now end up costing more than you'd save by moving, these days. That's why we've stayed where we are.

That must've been quite a while ago?!

2014, as I recall, +/- about a year.[/QUOTE]

 

[Raymond Lin]

I move to an entire new continent, rather my parents did. If you think housing is expensive in London, try Hong Kong.

You just got to weigh up what you prioritise more.