European Army

Tombstone

Tombstone

Tombstone

Man of Honour
Joined
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Ok, so hopefully someone wiser in the ways of the world can elaborate on this a little for me..

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...l-calls-creation-real-true-European-army.html

If there is a European Army and we aren't in the EU anymore, does that mean we wont be a part of that?

Does the existence of a European Army affect NATO or money into NATO etc?

Didn't some politician years ago say that the EU would push for an EU Army next?

How might it work? Would Germany be in command of the EU Army ? or Brussels? or operations etc done by vote?

Would each country have "command centres" and access to only their own hardware and bases etc or would a central command centre have access to everyones?
 
Tombstone said:
Ah, that's ok then, if the European Army isn't being suggested, then everyone can ignore my questions as they aren't needed to be answered. Many thanks !
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Let's be honest, if Merkel was 10 pints down and the topic of Murica came up and in her completely obliterated state joked to a single other person "maybe vee must make a european army haha" and the other person chortled the daily mail would run with MERKEL WANTS EUROPEAN ARMY, BACKED BY ALL SUPPORTERS PRESENT.

It's a load of rubbish. We know it, the Mail know it, but it generates clicks.
 
Diddums said:
Let's be honest, if Merkel was 10 pints down and the topic of Murica came up and in her completely obliterated state joked to a single other person "maybe vee must make a european army haha" and the other person chortled the daily mail would run with MERKEL WANTS EUROPEAN ARMY, BACKED BY ALL SUPPORTERS PRESENT.

It's a load of rubbish. We know it, the Mail know it, but it generates clicks.
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No worries, now that you have clarified that she never said it, it makes my questions null and void, so all's good.
 
Tombstone said:
If there is a European Army and we aren't in the EU anymore, does that mean we wont be a part of that? YES

Does the existence of a European Army affect NATO or money into NATO etc? YES and NO

Didn't some politician years ago say that the EU would push for an EU Army next? YES

How might it work? Would Germany be in command of the EU Army ? or Brussels? or operations etc done by vote? SAME AS NATO, 1 COMMAND LED BY A CIVILIAN COMMITTEE UNLESS IN TIME OF WAR

Would each country have "command centres" and access to only their own hardware and bases etc or would a central command centre have access to everyones? AS ABOVE FOR COMMAND WITH NATIONS PLEDGING TROOPS INDIVIDUALLY
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Briefly answered. The plan would be along the lines of NATO where a a centralised military command structure is overseen by a civilian committee until a time of war where the military commander takes full control. Each nation has an input into the military command structure and pledges forces to the EU Army. The more you pledge the more command roles you get and the more "power" your civilian over-seers get over decisions.

As for NATO vs EU regarding forces, there aren't enough forces in each nation to pledge a separate group to each NATO and EU army so the same troops/equipment etc would be supplied to both on the understanding that it would be 99.9% unlikely that both the EU and NATO would try to do their own thing at the same time in sufficient numbers that nations couldn't supply both.
 
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*shrug*

I could argue that I never said that but you're not coming across as someone worth engaging in a discussion with, so whatever.
 
ianh said:
Briefly answered. The plan would be along the lines of NATO where a a centralised military command structure is overseen my a civilian committee until a time of war where the military commander takes full control. Each nation has an input into the military command structure and pledges forces to the EU Army. The more you pledge the more command roles you get and the more "power" your civilian over-seers get over decisions.
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Thanks for the reply but Diddums has already cleared it out for me, so no worries :)
 
So the 'haha don't be stupid the EU will never want a European army' is now shown to be 'France's Macron pushes for 'true European army'
GD at it's finest.
 
Diddums said:
A random proper source appears! Gratitude intensifies!

Still, it's nothing at the moment. I'll start paying attention when pen gets put to paper.
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Aha ! excellent, so my questions are once again valid.

I guess the question out of my list that I am most interested in, is the one regarding the EU and our membership, would we be included in the European Army once brexit goes through and do you think they might ask us to pay more into the European Army (as a non EU member). Or for that matter, would we even want to be in the European Army, I'm assuming that we would really. Or perhaps membership to NATO is sufficient for our needs?
 
One potential point of having a purely EU army would be...........get ready for the tin-foil hats.............controlling any EU internal decent should it ever need to, which is something neither a single nation nor NATO would ever be able to do. Now thats just one plausible reason to have an EU army alongside dozens of much more palatable ones so while the chances of that very specific use are tiny it does still exist.

There was a very good "Tom Clancy style" novel written in 1993 (as the EU came into law) by Larry Bond called Cauldron which has the following synopsis and gives a "worst case" scenario for an EU Army -

North African immigrants are flooding Europe looking for work, riots in France and Germany prompts both countries to create the "EurCon" collective and attempt to force a number of Eastern European nations to accept the immigrants.

Poland, the Czech Republic, and Slovakia stand up against EurCon, which gradually deploys combat troops to their borders. France also negotiates with Russia to stop natural-gas shipments to Poland.

The United States comes in to support Poland by sending an LNG tanker to Gdask; French covert operatives blow it up in the harbour. The U.S. Navy starts sending armed convoys to force a breakthrough of the Baltic Sea and keep the supply lines open.

French oppression in Eastern Europe comes to a head with a people's uprising in Budapest. Seeing the turmoil as a potential harbinger for unrest, France orders the EurCon military to subjugate the Hungarians days later. As the US and UK get drawn in to the conflict the only question remaining is..........where will this end?
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Now considering that written in 1993 thats a very remarkable amount of foreshadowing to what we see today.
 
If you go back to during the Brexit referendum campaign Nick Clegg and co. were branding Brexiteers who talked about the plans for an EU-wide army conspiracy theorists and dangerous fantasists.

Why don't the EU nations just pay 2% into NATO and properly fulfil their obligations to the US? it has kept Europe safe since the end of WW2 and there's only something like 2-3 countries who pay the full 2% of GDP. I suppose it's more of a case that they need jackboots now that they've got half of eastern Europe telling them where to stick their anti-democratic/anti-nation state dictats, dismiss the will of the people as 'populism' at their own peril.
 
Plenty of agreements are made outside the EU, we already have military ties with France for example.

If the US is going to be more insular and cosy up to Russia then a unified European force might seem like a tempting idea. Though will probably end up causing more tension with both and have very little impact if ever needed.
 
ianh said:
One potential point of having a purely EU army would be...........get ready for the tin-foil hats.............controlling any EU internal decent should it ever need to, which is something neither a single nation nor NATO would ever be able to do. Now thats just one plausible reason to have an EU army alongside dozens of much more palatable ones so while the chances of that very specific use are tiny it does still exist.

There was a very good "tom Clancy style" novel written in 1993 (as the EU came into law) by Larry Bond called Cauldron which has the following synopsis and gives a "worst case" scenario for an EU Army -



Now considering that written in 1993 thats a very remarkable amount of foreshadowing to what see see today.
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That actually sounds like quite an interesting book, I'll have a look and see if its on audible. Thanks.
 
ttaskmaster said:
Only works if there's also a Real European Army, Official European Army, Provisional European Army and so on...!! :D
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Provisional's taken, as is Real, and official. New European Army? Oops, New's taken as well! ;)
Maybe Merkel could call it the 'Wehrmacht', catchy title.
 
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