Life at a loss

[Jasoncmor]

Hi all

I'm a long time lurker here, and just rarely post anything, but I thought with a huge online community I could open up a bit about my situation and hopefully get some insight, with the experience and knowledge that many of you will have gained.

So basically, I am at a loss on what to do with my life. I'm 30 in a few months time and I have nothing to show for myself, I'm the guy that helps everyone but doesn't know what to do for myself.
I have thought about what I would like to do for years, job searched, read articles, done online tests etc and just not really had any inspiration and found anything I really want to get into.

I started my working life working for a small IT shop, that dealt with new builds & upgrades, repairs and sales, started working part time while I finished college and then became full time. I was there for 3 years and I enjoyed it, but then started to lose interest.
So my second job, I was a laborer, I worked for a friends company and they were general builders so did most things, electrical, plumbing, kitchens, bathrooms, patios etc etc. The job only lasted around 6 months as the company went bankrupt so i was left without a job.

So after this had happened, I had some friends within the church I attended at the time, 2 were builders and the other 2 starting up a property business, so I worked with them for a while renovating some houses, which i enjoyed also.

After this, I was desperate for a full time job and a friend of mine got me a job at my local McDonald's, and this is where I feel things went down hill. After I finished college, I had planned to take a year out and then go back to do an electrician course, that never happened, full time work took over and I lost track of going back into education, I also got myself into a lot of debt, which was my own fault for frivolous spending, and not asking for anything back when I had to pay stuff out of my own pocket, fuel, food out etc.
So due to drowning in debt, I got comfortable with things, hoping things would get better, but obviously, it doesn't work like that, so after years of just paying the minimum payments and living in my O/D I finally got help and my parents lent me the money to pay off everything, I just now owe them the money which I pay back.

I worked up to 1st Assistant manager, but didn't really like the job, as I was there to just earn money to pay my bills, but being the nice person I am, i helped everyone and did more work than I was actually paid to do, which was physically and mentally draining, I liked the people I worked with but couldn't stand the job.
Unfortunately I stayed there for almost 10 years just working away, earning money to pay the bills and I just felt trapped, and I wanted out for so long but just couldn't pluck up the courage to firstly leave, but every time I looked for another job, I just couldn't see how I could get into that job due to the requirements, so I just become part of the furniture I guess at mcd's.

After nearly 10 years of being there, the only way out was to move away which would force me to get out and get a job in the new area, so I moved 100 miles away with my partner to start a new life together, as she had just finished uni and it just felt the right thing to do.

So in the new area I started looking for jobs and applying for anything that looked interesting, tried for a lot of assistant manager jobs with in retail and the food industry, but didn't even hear back from 99% of them.
I finally got a job for a well known motor factors, as a delivery driver covering the south west, so spend most of my days on the motorway. Its a step back and very boring and easy but I'm wanting to do something with myself now.

Now, the thing is, whilst I was at McD's, I learnt a lot of skills in my own time, and I had a couple of part time side "businesses", I used to fix iphones, ipads and other smart devices & laptops for people I knew, and word spread fast around the work place, and then friends of friends, so I never advertised anywhere, It was just word of mouth that got me fixing this stuff for people, also had an online "business" for a while too which was interesting.

I also learn't a lot about mechanics, so am very confident in maintaining and repairing things on cars, i'm not a professional but would call myself a competant DIY mechanic, this also led to me fixing peoples cars for them, people would always come to me with a problem and I would always have a solution and would then repair the car for them.

I also did some building work whilst I was at home at my parents home, room conversion, an outhouse, a custom built shed, to name a few.

I enjoyed doing all this stuff, and there is loads more that I enjoy doing, like gardening, cooking, DIY, but every time I think about whether I could do this stuff for a living, I really don't fancy the idea of it, so i'm continually at a loss as to what I should do, as i don't feel like I should pursue it as a job / career.

But i also want a job / career that has a fair work / life balance, I currently work 6 days a week, and by the time ive got home in the evenings, there isn't much time to do very much which is always really depressing as I like making things, or playing a game on my pc, but i just dont have the time or energy to do it to enjoy it.

I've built up loads of tools aswell for each area that i gained skills in, so like diy tools, gardening power tools, mechanic tools etc, but they are just a waste now as they dont get used currently.

I'm just stuck in a loop aswell at the moment where I'm trying to earn money to pay for a life that I want, but i'm spending all my time working that I can't enjoy life.

So I guess my question is, how do you figure out what you want to do in your job / career ?

I've considered doing a traineeship they call it at https://itcareerswitch.co.uk/it-technician-traineeship/ to study from home and get back into IT, i've also considered going back to night college to do the electrician course I always wanted to do, but I just feel completely lost on what to do.
I don't even know if I want to get back into IT.

Help !!!

Apologies for the long post, i hope it all makes sense.
Thanks for taking the time to read.

Cheers, Jason

 

[jakedude182]

What is great is that you've a lot of experience at things that your not that keen on, but Have tried.

So i'd suggest, to try to come across something that you are naturally good at, and try to build on that whilst enjoying doing it at the same time.
If money is a key factor in what jobs you would accept or wouldn't, perhaps try your best to stay above your expenses, but let go of spending (on anything new) for a while whilst you try out a completely new job for you that you have no idea whether you'll enjoy.

Maybe have a look around Udemy and see if anything looks fun to try

 

[dowie]

Edit - had this reply drafted in another tab earlier then pressed reply now, amusing to see the above video, seems to be asking the question posed below essentially what would you do if money wasn't an issue.

So I guess my question is, how do you figure out what you want to do in your job / career ?

What would you do if you won the lottery?

Also - don't discount your management experience - there are a whole range of general "manager" type roles out there that don't require any specific skills, qualifications or experience beyond simply having some experience managing teams of people. For example someone I know got a job as a manager at a national trust property - their job involved coordinating various full time staff and a small army of volunteers... turned out to be much less stressful than working in retail and the place of work was obviously rather unique, surrounded by nice gardens/scenery etc...

I've considered doing a traineeship they call it at https://itcareerswitch.co.uk/it-technician-traineeship/ to study from home and get back into IT, i've also considered going back to night college to do the electrician course I always wanted to do, but I just feel completely lost on what to do.
I don't even know if I want to get back into IT.

If you have prior IT experience then you could just as well just get a support job and pursue whatever certificates you like in your spare time and/or aim for some particular path/goal.

If you are in it for the long term and have a bit more ambition than the average support bod then a degree (and potentially a masters later) could be worthwhile. You could take a look at the Open University or the university of London International program for distance learning or if you live in London then Birkbeck for a degree via evening classes.

Another alternative is the degree apprenticeship programs in IT, they pay you and you study for a degree while working - presumably the degree course itself is rather applied.

 

[Jasoncmor]

Hi guys
Thank you both for your replies.
I have watched that Alan watts speech many many times, and I just have a really good think about it and still not sure what I come up with.
If I was to win the lottery, i would take time out from working, pay off my parents, have a holiday, then go to college, and do the electrician course, ultimately I would really like to be a property developer or similar, but even if that was possible, its very far off!

Currently though, with money, I've never earn't loads to be honest, currently only on just over £20k, and for what I need, its fine, I can survive on it no issues, but doesn't leave me a lot of leeway for saving lots for example, I'm not really sure if there is a point in your life where you can say you are well off / comfortable, and save the right amount.
If I could get another job with around the same pay, i'd be happy, I'm currently not really needing much more.

The problem I see with my previous experience in IT is it was over 10 years ago that I was working there and things have changed, I've more than likely lost touch of it now, but I still keep track of hardware releases etc.

With my management experience, I did apply for a lot of management jobs in my area, and didn't hear back from 99% of them and the problem I have is i'm not the most confident of people.
A few other problems I always see is when looking for a job, they say you must have experience in this that and the other, or certificates for this and that so it always just seems like the job is so far out of reach, and how are you mean't to get experience if you can't get a job doing it in the first place ?

Also, how are you mean't to go for interviews when you work full time?
Do businesses generally allow people to leave to go for an interview? It just seems like a trap to me

I got talking to a colleague of mine this evening and he is in a similar boat and the same age as me and has applied to a local college to study to become a plumber, on an evening course, and he has given me some details which I will look into, so that could be 1 step for my future, it would take 2-3 years to complete so that just leaves me working out what to do in the mean time as I would like to do a job I enjoy, but would also have something to fall back on, assuming I did study to become an electrician and it didn't work out for example.

I appreciate your time and help guys, and I hope I'm making sense lol, im just putting thoughts into words.

Many thanks
Jason

 

[randomshenans]

With my management experience, I did apply for a lot of management jobs in my area, and didn't hear back from 99% of them and the problem I have is i'm not the most confident of people.

Firstly, do what you can to build that confidence. You have that experience and just because you aren't there now, you can do it. Believe in your experience. You could obviously do it or you wouldn't have been. Own that.
Secondly, how many jobs was this you applied for? To put it into some context, I had to find another job, while I was technically still employed (long story lol) but from the face of it I had an IT role, good experience. I mean, I wasn't out of work and jobless. I applied for over 200 jobs. Not even kidding... every day I put in more and more applications. I tailored my CV, my covering letter etc. and I didn't go for worse jobs, why would I? I needed a job, but I knew I was at least as good if not better than my current role. It was demoralising as hell to hear nothing from 90% of those. Some I got rejections from, some heard nothing (most), and some took about 3 months to get back to me to tell me I hadn't got it. In the end, I had 6 interviews from all that effort and was offered 3 positions. All better than the job I was leaving. I was pretty flexible with location but they were all Herts/Beds/Bucks/Cambs/Lon area I tried.
I think a lot of people try a few and give up as the lack of response or feedback knocks the small confidence you have in your own ability. When it's nothing personal, they probably didn't even look at your CV. The job might have already been filled, or for the most part the recruiters are crap!

Be confident. I know it's easy to say, harder to do. I have had this conversation with my mum (she runs a market research company) and she has pangs of no confidence sometimes, like WTF am I doing? I am a fraud etc. everyone gets this. She will often do breathing and focus exercises in front of the mirror to build her confidence before she has to do something, such as big pitch bla bla. You aren't alone, far from it. It may sound silly, but it's all just trying to increase your self belief.

What gives you great experience over and above probably most other people you'd be against is your breadth of experience across sectors, and you will know way more than you think you do.

A few other problems I always see is when looking for a job, they say you must have experience in this that and the other, or certificates for this and that so it always just seems like the job is so far out of reach, and how are you mean't to get experience if you can't get a job doing it in the first place ?

When people write job descriptions 99% of the time they will pitch for the "Ideal Candidate" - often this person is a ******* unicorn! They don't exist! Or, they're so few and far between, but if you get asked to write down what you'd like someone to have prior to hiring, of course you'd put everything you'd like on there. Just doesn't mean you will find them! Don't be put off by these and always punt for something you can't do 100%.
If no one went for jobs above what they do, how would we get better? Climb the ladder? My rule is; if I nail roughly half or 2/3s of the must haves, I'll try applying. Especially if a lot of the others are simply just things I could learn easily anyway, or transferable skills could mean I'd pick those other bits up anyway. Likewise with degrees etc. I have no degree... I dropped out. Yet, every job I have applied for asked for a degree. I mean, if you're applying for a doctors job, you might not get it without a MD, but you get the idea!

Also, how are you mean't to go for interviews when you work full time?
Do businesses generally allow people to leave to go for an interview? It just seems like a trap to me

Why worry about a potential problem that isn't even a problem yet? Don't overthink things.

 

[malachi]

With my management experience, I did apply for a lot of management jobs in my area, and didn't hear back from 99% of them and the problem I have is i'm not the most confident of people.

I have applied for over 100 jobs since September and I'm still going. Had plenty of rejects and most of them don't respond. That's how it is, you have to keep on going because once you stop then you are stuck in a rut and never will progress.

A few other problems I always see is when looking for a job, they say you must have experience in this that and the other, or certificates for this and that so it always just seems like the job is so far out of reach, and how are you mean't to get experience if you can't get a job doing it in the first place ?

Doesn't matter, JD's over-exaggerate. If you know you can do most of what is listed then apply anyway. What you got to loose? Hasn't stopped me and I still get interviews every few weeks. My current job said on its JD "educated to a degree level" I am not but they still gave me the job, I am abit senior here now so I got HR to remove that requirement because its not necessary for the job we do here.

Also, how are you mean't to go for interviews when you work full time?
Do businesses generally allow people to leave to go for an interview? It just seems like a trap to me

Worry about that when you get an interview. You find a way to do so, I always do.

 

[randomshenans]

Could have just copied and pasted my response tbh

 

[malachi]

Could have just copied and pasted my response tbh

I know but I'm currently job searching too. So giving my experience

 

[FortuitousFluke]

If you're really interested in moving into becoming an electrician could you look at apprenticeships? If you were to work 40 hours p/w as an apprentice being over 21 the base is £15.5k by the looks of it. Given you work 6 days a week and seemingly a lot more hours than that at the moment you could probably supplement to not far off your current rate by taking some additional part time shifts as a second job?

Failing that there are companies that will offer apprenticeships at above the base rate, they'll be sought after but you have a lot to offer above some 16-18 year old college leaver.

I don't know a lot about this subject at all but I'm just spitballing for you here to give some ideas.

I echo what others say about JDs too, you're not trying to be the perfect candidate, you just need to be in the top 4-10, and a lot of the time they're shooting for the moon in terms of what they can actually expect to get in the door. Equally you don't need to have direct experience to tick something off. I don't have any experience of managing a large team for instance, but I could get some way towards meeting that requirement through my experience in managing projects and stakeholders, the skills are somewhat transferable. Have a think about your private life, your hobbies, challenges you've had and try to apply life experience as well.

I just want to say, when I read through your OP I didn't think to myself "wow this guy has nothing to show for himself" I thought "that is some diverse experience right there". So don't be so down on yourself buddy.

 

[Jasoncmor]

If you're really interested in moving into becoming an electrician could you look at apprenticeships? If you were to work 40 hours p/w as an apprentice being over 21 the base is £15.5k by the looks of it. Given you work 6 days a week and seemingly a lot more hours than that at the moment you could probably supplement to not far off your current rate by taking some additional part time shifts as a second job?

Failing that there are companies that will offer apprenticeships at above the base rate, they'll be sought after but you have a lot to offer above some 16-18 year old college leaver.

I don't know a lot about this subject at all but I'm just spitballing for you here to give some ideas.

I echo what others say about JDs too, you're not trying to be the perfect candidate, you just need to be in the top 4-10, and a lot of the time they're shooting for the moon in terms of what they can actually expect to get in the door. Equally you don't need to have direct experience to tick something off. I don't have any experience of managing a large team for instance, but I could get some way towards meeting that requirement through my experience in managing projects and stakeholders, the skills are somewhat transferable. Have a think about your private life, your hobbies, challenges you've had and try to apply life experience as well.

I just want to say, when I read through your OP I didn't think to myself "wow this guy has nothing to show for himself" I thought "that is some diverse experience right there". So don't be so down on yourself buddy.

Thanks for your reply FortuitousFluke - Its much appreciated.
I am very interested in becoming an electrician, I am not sure yet if / when / how its gonna happen, but i'm putting a lot of work into looking at the best way to go about it, whether its night college, apprenticeship and I have some contact details of somebody who works at a local college, so I will be getting in touch with her shortly to see the options I have with them, and hopefully be able to ask some questions too.
Thank you very much for your kind words on the last sentence, a problem I have is that I find things easy, whether thats before I do them, or once I've taught myself how to do it, so then I get bored of it. I guess I'm just looking for a real challenge that is also rewarding.

 

[Jasoncmor]

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Thanks for your reply randomshenans, its much appreciated.

So, compared to you, i didn't really apply for that many jobs, I applied for maybe management 30 jobs, I just kept looking, applied and waited for a response, and it did get disheartening not hearing back, I even found a perfectly matched job with what I already did in Mcd, I was feeling pretty hopeful about the job aswell, and I didn't even get an interview, just got rejected after a couple of months, I couldn't believe it!
With the job requirements etc what are you mean't to say if you get an interview and they bring up a particular point that they want experience in, but you don't have it? I remember having an interview for the nhs IT department that made databases a number of years ago, i had basic experience of making databases and I had an interview with 2 guys who I felt absolutely grilled me on how to make a database, how to do this, that and the other, i struggled with some of the questions, and suffice to say I felt like I had failed the interview and didn't get the job in the end. I guess that knocked me back abit.

I'm certainly working on my confidence and vocal skills, and hope to be there one day lol.
I do worry and overthink things a lot, i guess that is anther one of my problems.

Thanks for the insight into JD's and job stuff, Its not really something i've ever been told or even learn't, having not changed job very much its all very new to me and its actually a real great help, so thank you, it is really much appreciated

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Thanks malachi for your reply aswell, it is also very much appreciated.

I feel like I have replied above to your comments

 

[randomshenans]

With the job requirements etc what are you mean't to say if you get an interview and they bring up a particular point that they want experience in, but you don't have it? I remember having an interview for the nhs IT department that made databases a number of years ago, i had basic experience of making databases and I had an interview with 2 guys who I felt absolutely grilled me on how to make a database, how to do this, that and the other, i struggled with some of the questions, and suffice to say I felt like I had failed the interview and didn't get the job in the end. I guess that knocked me back abit.

Well in that instance it sounds like the Db experience was a must have for them, so having someone super clued up was a priority. Often this isn't the case for everything, and things that can be more important are team fit and softer skills. Having interviewed a lot of people, the common theme is that people try and answer the question even if they have no idea about the answer. I'd much prefer someone to say "I don't know the answer to that specific question, but the way I'd approach finding it would be..." your ability to learn, assess and problem solve are very high ranking on peoples' lists for most positions. That can often rank higher than someone simply with knowledge but doesn't demonstrate the above.

From my experience anyway!

Feel free to post what you're looking at JD wise and also your CV. I'm not the best CV writer but we have some great people in here!

 

[dowie]

If I was to win the lottery, i would take time out from working, pay off my parents, have a holiday, then go to college, and do the electrician course, ultimately I would really like to be a property developer or similar, but even if that was possible, its very far off!

Well getting a trade/getting into property development (in some capacity) is feasible at least and frankly you don't need to be a lottery winner to renovate and flip houses for example, especially if you get into the industry and build up a load of contacts of mates with different trades etc... While it isn't full on property development it is at least a similar interest.

Sounds like training to be an electrician could be a good move.

You could look at other options too like if you trained as a surveyor then you could have a stable, reasonably well paid profession that is also aligned with that interest. AFAIK you can achieve that via an apprenticeship or via an accredited university course.

the problem I have is i'm not the most confident of people.

Confident with regards to your skillset? Or confident as in social interactions?

Ref the social side of things - where do you live? Near a big city at all? I'd suggest taking a beginner acting or improv course. Honestly there are so many people out there who can't even sit or stand properly - have poor posture etc.. become poor at communicating, start getting in their head, can't look others in the eye etc... etc... lots of this can be solved.

I'm not suggesting a single short course would completely change you in the space of a few weeks, though would likely give you some pointers that help with presentation etc.. but if you liked a beginner course and they had more available then taking a few could almost certainly improve things.

A few other problems I always see is when looking for a job, they say you must have experience in this that and the other, or certificates for this and that so it always just seems like the job is so far out of reach, and how are you mean't to get experience if you can't get a job doing it in the first place ?

If you tick most of the boxes then I wouldn't worry about not meeting all requirements, might well be that no candidate ticks all the boxes.

I'm a little bit unsure what to make of the comments from some people that they've applied for so many positions, that does sound like they've either been very unlucky and all those places were swamped with candidates or perhaps a good portion of those positions there were requirements they didn't meet and the hiring manager did deem them to be rather important requirements.

Do keep in mind that there are other means to get a job than just applying via a recruitment portal or replying to adverts - people don't like recruiters much but often if they think you're suitable for a role they're working on then the next step is to just to arrange a phone call or an interview with the hiring manager... don't need to worry about sending in some application to be filtered by HR etc... I'm not sure that is so applicable to the construction industry, though if you go back to IT then do make use of them.

Likewise meetup.com groups, linkedin etc.. (again perhaps more relevant if you were to get back into IT). Even online forums, I had one of my first interviews in London as a result of a forum related to that industry - I got another interview at a rival firm by just phoning them and asking to speak to a particular manager.

Also, how are you mean't to go for interviews when you work full time?

Ideally you have a phone interview first - just nip out at lunch, hopefully if you get through that then you're a serious prospect for the job and you can perhaps consider taking a half day off work etc.. could just book it as holiday. It is always worth asking if they can schedule an interview early in the morning or late in the evening, companies know that you can't always get time off. You can of course have a dentist appointment, but there are only so many times you can go to the dentist/doctor tbh... (and if you're caught lying then it really isn't good at all). If you live in a big city then Lunchtime interview could work, likewise if you get a morning interview and are at all flexible with your hours then just come in late.

Do you normally wear a suit and tie to work? If you work in an environment where it is a bit of a mix of business casual and suit/tie then it is worth wearing a suit and tie every so often regardless, then when you suddenly need to suit up one day for a lunchtime or morning interview it doesn't look immediately suspicious/out of place.

 

[randomshenans]

I'm a little bit unsure what to make of the comments from some people that they've applied for so many positions, that does sound like they've either been very unlucky and all those places were swamped with candidates or perhaps a good portion of those positions there were requirements they didn't meet and the hiring manager did deem them to be rather important requirements.

It was the former for me, in a location with mass competition and a role with much competition. It becomes less so the higher you climb and the more niche you get, so I'd imagine you don't have that issue.

 

[malachi]

If you need to improve your confidence there are plenty of videos on YouTube on how to do this. Read a few books too, which helped me a lot.

 

[CircleFaust]

as you are not on a huge wage at the moment (£20k?) you could get into a lower level IT job if you get some basic qualifications, then try and work your way up
i'm in the same position where i've been in a job for many years and bored of it now
i want to stay in IT but move to a different area. it is extremely difficult without experience or qualifications. i will have to take a drop in pay and conditions if i move
like you i'm not even sure i want to do IT but i thought i may as well work with what i have. i really wouldn't know what to do even if i was a big risk taker and walked out of a job for a new life haha. some people are lucky and have always had a clear vision of exactly what they want to be and go for it. i've never been like that! theres a dozen jobs i'd like to do, it's a confusing and mad world this human condition

 

[dowie]

It was the former for me, in a location with mass competition and a role with much competition. It becomes less so the higher you climb and the more niche you get, so I'd imagine you don't have that issue.

Well I guess some niche skills, though I can't say I've climbed particularly high, only ever a few people reporting to me at any time. The useful thing is more just the network from previous work - I've had various recruiters contact me simply because someone else I worked with said they should talk to me about a particular role. In some cases there aren't many people with the particular skillset, in one amusing interview the hiring manager realised part way through that I was the name/author on the particular documentation his team had been relying on and he'd only just made the connection/recognised my name during the interview... he didn't bother asking any technical questions after that and it turned into more of a "well this is what you'd be doing, do you want the role?" which was nice... though obvs that was rather a lucky coincidence/one off situation from having previously done a project for that bank.

 

[Amplus]

If you need to improve your confidence there are plenty of videos on YouTube on how to do this. Read a few books too, which helped me a lot.

What YouTube video's and books did you read / watch?

 

[dowie]

I suspect books and youtube videos, while they might give you some pointers etc.. aren't going to solve the issue alone nor are they necessarily required even. You've got to get out there and do it, not just read about it or watch/listen to someone talk about it.

 

[malachi]

What YouTube video's and books did you read / watch?

I mainly follow this guy call Jason Capital, he main talks about business and success now but he has a few videos about confidence. Here is one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxz1f0xeR00

He also released a book back in 2017, I think he's still giving the PDF away for free.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Higher-Sta...619615991/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

Plenty of stuff in the book about eye contact, how you such conduct yourself in a face to face interview.