Radeon VII

[LePhuronn]

Hey just my 2 pence but if the new PlayStation and xbox feature the navi 10 lite as the gpu to power 4k 60fps gaming. I think we are looking at the navi 10 non lite as a power house not a 580 /vega replacement i. E the 3080X No??

Entirely possible, but then we have Arcturus coming in 2020. It's logical to suggest that the leaked RX 3080 uses a cut down Navi 10 die, so there could be a full-fat Navi 10 card waiting in the wings, which would no doubt replace the Radeon VII at the top of the stack. But even then Navi is looking like a short-term product (about a year or so) until Arcturus shows up with its new architecture, not another iteration of GCN. Consoles and Ryzen APUs will still have Navi, but discrete graphics cards will move to Arcturus.

 

[Illuminist]

Entirely possible, but then we have Arcturus coming in 2020. It's logical to suggest that the leaked RX 3080 uses a cut down Navi 10 die, so there could be a full-fat Navi 10 card waiting in the wings, which would no doubt replace the Radeon VII at the top of the stack. But even then Navi is looking like a short-term product (about a year or so) until Arcturus shows up with its new architecture, not another iteration of GCN. Consoles and Ryzen APUs will still have Navi, but discrete graphics cards will move to Arcturus.

Im thinking the navi 10 X or non lite will be better than the v7 or similar, leaving v7 as the content creating card of choice with the mega navi 8gb gddr5x gddr6 whatever for pure gaming sexellence

 

[LePhuronn]

Im thinking the navi 10 X or non lite will be better than the v7 or similar, leaving v7 as the content creating card of choice with the mega navi 8gb gddr5x gddr6 whatever for pure gaming sexellence

No doubt. If the RX 3080 is supposed to be Vega 64 +15% on a cut-down Navi 10, a full-fat Navi 10 should be at least Vega 64 +25% which is where Radeon VII sits. So yeah, from a gaming perspective such a theoretical full-fat Navi 10 would supplant the Radeon VII as the top-tier gaming card.

Whether Radeon VII continues to exist after that remains to be seen. It could stay as a prosumer content creation card IF it's made from salvaged Instinct packages, but otherwise there's no need any more at that point to take away from MI50 sales by repurposing their packages for gaming.

 

[pete910]

$750

Where did this number come from, AMD ?

Or is it wild guesses from unknowns on backend end forums on the net?

 

[Panos]

Where did this number come from, AMD ?

Or is it wild guesses from unknowns on backend end forums on the net?

AMD. It costs around $750 to make the RVII, MI50, MI60. As they are all the same card.
And failed MI50 & MI60 becoming RVII at $699.

So for AMD is a win, because doesn't have to throw to the bin $750 but $50 on the loss accounts.
Or $100 if we add the games it is coming with. (which they will buy licences with huge discount).

 

[ICDP]

Where did this number come from, AMD ?

Or is it wild guesses from unknowns on backend end forums on the net?

https://wccftech.com/exclusive-mike-rayfield-amd-retires/

I got it there. Ironically he "left" because he was pushing for 7nm gaming Vega to be released. Rumour is that AMD management felt it was a bad idea because they could not afford to release another GPU that lost them money to produce. Navi was seen as being very good for mid range at very good prices. Unfortunately Navi was delayed by ~3 months, so they ramped up a Readeon VII limited run to have at least one new gaming GPU for release to fill the void.

With Vega EOL and and Navi delayed, AMD would have been in a very poor position that their best GPU was a 590. Imagine a 6 month battle for market share with AMD having nothing but low end. So VII is a limited run card that AMD simply had to release.

None of that makes VII a bad GPU and it will be a viable alternative to RTX 2080. No it won't have RTX but considering it is of limited value many wont mind. Especially as the VII does have 16GB VRAM and to many that is much more tangible and beneficial on a GPU than unused features.

A guy I know bought a RTX 2080Ti so he could get the best RTX had to offer. He has a 4K monitor and had to run his RTX 2080Ti at 1080p to get acceptable FPS. I can tell you that 1080p on a 4K monitor looks like muck no matter what fancy effects you have on.

 

[Scougar]

I think the problem is that people (like me) are concerned with buying an expensive card now, only to get a value card do the same thing for much much cheaper a few months down the line. It does feel like a stand-in product just like you say ICDP, and it what I suspected was the case tbh.

 

[ICDP]

My problem is I got a Pimax 5K+ recently and my stock Vega 64 GPU is a struggling a bit. ~ 30% would make a decent difference.

• So either a Radeon VII at £650 and sell the games to make it more palatable at ~ £600
  
• An RTX 2080 at £650 but be pretty much guaranteed to get a lower binned die. Sell free game to help offset cost a bit.
  
• A second hand 1080Ti at a much more respectable £500 - £550 on used auction site. Then have the worry of getting an used and abused one, with a warranty that could be void.

 

[4K8KW10]

I can tell you that 1080p on a 4K monitor looks like muck no matter what fancy effects you have on.

1080p on a 4K looks better than 1080p on 1080p. I don't know what you are doing but it isn't correct.

edit: on a Radeon, the GeForces might screw the picture, only God knows what happens with them...

 

[nashathedog]

The VII price will be high regardless of how it performs & what that performance should and would have cost if Nvidia weren't screwing the gamers so hard, They can excuse it by saying well it has 16gb's of HBM & by as they put it being a limited run.

 

[4K8KW10]

The VII price will be high regardless of how it performs & what that performance should and would have cost if Nvidia weren't screwing the gamers so hard, They can excuse it by saying well it has 16gb's of HBM & by as they put it being a limited run.

And that they keep the FP64 performance high enough. 1/8?

 

[Davedree]

AMD. It costs around $750 to make the RVII, MI50, MI60. As they are all the same card.
And failed MI50 & MI60 becoming RVII at $699.

So for AMD is a win, because doesn't have to throw to the bin $750 but $50 on the loss accounts.
Or $100 if we add the games it is coming with. (which they will buy licences with huge discount).

They share the same Die and Hbm2 Package, but they're not the same card, Mi50/60 has a totally different pcb to the V7, The accelerator pcb has 2x slots for infinity link, and no display output circuitry.
Amd had to design a totally different pcb, with different orientation of power regulation circuitry, add display tracing and output connectors and the aftermarket heatsink and fan. So initial expense and R&d for a short lived limited supply would have cost a little more.
It's more a case of either desoldering the bga package onto the Consumer Pcb, or running two production lines and offsetting a certain percentage of the Die package to both consumer and Instinct.

 

[ICDP]

1080p on a 4K looks better than 1080p on 1080p. I don't know what you are doing but it isn't correct.

edit: on a Radeon, the GeForces might screw the picture, only God knows what happens with them...

That wasn't the scenario I described. What it looks like in comparison to 1080p on 1080p is irrelevant. The valid point is this guy has a 4K monitor and at native resolution it looks much better and sharper than when it is running at 1080p. It is made worse by the fact it is a 40" 4K monitor sitting a few feet form his face. Talk about blocky at 1080p.

He didn't buy a 2080Ti because he wanted more FPS at 4K, he literally bought it for ray tracing, before there was even a game with ray tracing. When Battlefield V got the RT patch he loaded it up with pure anticipation. I watched the look on his face go from confusion, to dismay, to disgust and finally looking like he was going to throw up when he realised how much he spent on a GPU for a feature he could only run at low and 1080p. It was sad and hilarious in equal measures for me because I did tell him wait for actual RTX to be added to games first and actual reviews. He is now waiting for and I quote, "real games with real ray tracing because Battlefield V sucks the devil's **** from hell". He is still waiting over three months later.

 

[Brazo]

My problem is I got a Pimax 5K+ recently and my stock Vega 64 GPU is a struggling a bit. ~ 30% would make a decent difference.

• So either a Radeon VII at £650 and sell the games to make it more palatable at ~ £600
  
• An RTX 2080 at £650 but be pretty much guaranteed to get a lower binned die. Sell free game to help offset cost a bit.
  
• A second hand 1080Ti at a much more respectable £500 - £550 on used auction site. Then have the worry of getting an used and abused one, with a warranty that could be void.

It’s an interesting decision and I would decide between the first two options as I think the 1080ti is going to start to get left behind.

At the same price you are choosing between either an additional 8gb of ram or fast RTX cores. It’s kinda irrelevant as both will be sat there redundant for the next two years .

If they are both the same price and offer similar performance I’d look at the quality of the cooler to see what would offer the least noise.

 

[ICDP]

It’s an interesting decision and I would decide between the first two options as I think the 1080ti is going to start to get left behind.

At the same price you are choosing between either an additional 8gb of ram or fast RTX cores. It’s kinda irrelevant as both will be sat there redundant for the next two years .

If they are both the same price and offer similar performance I’d look at the quality of the cooler to see what would offer the least noise.

Lol, yeah an extra 8GB VRAM I don't need or a feature that is practically worthless. you also make a good point I hadn't considered on the 1080Ti.

 

[Gibbo]

https://wccftech.com/exclusive-mike-rayfield-amd-retires/

I got it there. Ironically he "left" because he was pushing for 7nm gaming Vega to be released. Rumour is that AMD management felt it was a bad idea because they could not afford to release another GPU that lost them money to produce. Navi was seen as being very good for mid range at very good prices. Unfortunately Navi was delayed by ~3 months, so they ramped up a Readeon VII limited run to have at least one new gaming GPU for release to fill the void.

With Vega EOL and and Navi delayed, AMD would have been in a very poor position that their best GPU was a 590. Imagine a 6 month battle for market share with AMD having nothing but low end. So VII is a limited run card that AMD simply had to release.

None of that makes VII a bad GPU and it will be a viable alternative to RTX 2080. No it won't have RTX but considering it is of limited value many wont mind. Especially as the VII does have 16GB VRAM and to many that is much more tangible and beneficial on a GPU than unused features.

A guy I know bought a RTX 2080Ti so he could get the best RTX had to offer. He has a 4K monitor and had to run his RTX 2080Ti at 1080p to get acceptable FPS. I can tell you that 1080p on a 4K monitor looks like muck no matter what fancy effects you have on.

Vega 56 and 64 is indeed EOL and sold out at board partners now. We’re seeing that most competitors are out of stock or ramping up prices and we have had some foreign orders on our stock.

We won’t be putting prices up in short term and we shall get back to £299 and £399 this month but as with 1080Ti they will be short lived so people should not cry when ocuk is only reseller left with stock and we increase our prices.

Grab one whilst at £299 and £399 because once gone they gone just like 1080Ti deals.

 

[Tom B]

Vega 56 and 64 is indeed EOL and sold out at board partners now. We’re seeing that most competitors are out of stock or ramping up prices and we have had some foreign orders on our stock.

We won’t be putting prices up in short term and we shall get back to £299 and £399 this month but as with 1080Ti they will be short lived so people should not cry when ocuk is only reseller left with stock and we increase our prices.

Grab one whilst at £299 and £399 because once gone they gone just like 1080Ti deals.

I'm guessing you can't answer this, but do you have any idea when a water block will be available for the VII? I'd buy one on launch if I could get a block.

 

[Poneros]

I'm guessing you can't answer this, but do you have any idea when a water block will be available for the VII? I'd buy one on launch if I could get a block.

EK said they don't plan to release one atm, but would change down the road if shown that there's demand.

 

[Illuminist]

Resident evil time

 

[Panos]

I'm guessing you can't answer this, but do you have any idea when a water block will be available for the VII? I'd buy one on launch if I could get a block.

EK said that they will see demand, on the other hand Bykski and possibly Watercool more likely will make one soon. Personally I do not see the reason to watercool until summer time, post Navi.
Also the cooler is very beefy, with vapor chamber apparently, so with bit tweaking and downvolting it would be fine.