Your comparison makes no sense. Nvidia haven't continued to release lower quality products. It's a faster card with new technology in it. I'm not defending the price because as I said, I'm not in a position to say whether it is over-priced or not. Many of these posts just come off as I don't want to pay X for this and so neither should you so it comes down to a price where I will buy it at. Like the way overpriced bikes, cars, amps, Gibson guitars etc (just imo) you either pay it or move on. Lack of competition and the fact that everything is more expensive in the UK at the moment means nothing will change for the foreseeable.
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Your comparison makes no sense. Nvidia haven't continued to release lower quality products. It's a faster card with new technology in it. I'm not defending the price because as I said, I'm not in a position to say whether it is over-priced or not. Many of these posts just come off as I don't want to pay X for this and so neither should you so it comes down to a price where I will buy it at. Like the way overpriced bikes, cars, amps, Gibson guitars etc (just imo) you either pay it or move on. Lack of competition and the fact that everything is more expensive in the UK at the moment means nothing will change for the foreseeable.
Soldato
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I owned a 8800 GTX cost around £550 that makes the 1080Ti in the region of 33% more (not accounting for inflation but also not accounting for manufacturing efficiency improvements) factor in the 2080Ti and its near on double for the flagship model not incl Titan's
Caporegime
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I owned a 8800 GTX cost around £550 that makes the 1080Ti in the region of 33% more (not accounting for inflation but also not accounting for manufacturing efficiency improvements) factor in the 2080Ti and its near on double for the flagship model not incl Titan's
The GTX1080TI is not the flagship,the Titan Xp was. The 8800GTX was the fully enabled die and the 8800 Ultra was a pre-overclocked 8800GTX.
People forget that in the past the fully enabled die,or the best die possible was used for the top gaming model,but now the best dies are for the Titan prosumer models.
The best card of the Turing line-up would be the Titan RTX. This has a $2500 price tag. The 8800GTX would be between $740 to $800 taking inflation into account,and the 8800 Ultra $1000.
The GTX580 would be $590 with inflation taken into consideration.The GTX580 would be the equivalent of the Titan Xp and the GTX1080TI more like a GTX570.
The GTX280 would be $775.
Nvidia margins are now double that of that era,and a few times more than the Fermi era.
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They released a card with features you couldnt use at playable FPS
I bit like Gibson releasing that Guitar with a USB port that didn't work....
Caporegime
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It is also happening with phones too - Apple and Samsung kept jacking the price up and giving less and less,and lo and behold sales are starting to not be as hot as they expected as people keep the phones longer.
Nope
The reason people keepnphones longer is not the price it’s the lack of innovation.
The only thing on phones that gets better is the camera is slightly better every year. Otherwise the phones have the same features and perform the same as they did 3 years ago. They don’t give people a reason to upgrade - it would be like releasing a graphics card that performs the same as the one you did last year and the year before that
People think it’s price but it’s not - if amd or nvidia releases a $2000 pound gpu tommorow that was 5 faster than a 2080ti it would sell like hot cakes, money be dammed. But give us something that performs the same when you don’t use a benchmark, Meh. We use benchmarks to measure performance because hardware performs so close to previous generations that without a benchmark you wouldn’t be able to. Tell which gpu is the new one and which is the old one in play session
Ok, hazard this.
If the average person plays on a 1080p monitor and is fine with 60Hz (a major chunk), what innovation has there been for them realistically until RTX came along?
The issue with comparing with Phones is that a phone is searching for other things to do (now rather ran out at this point) when realistically you just need it to be connected audio/video to someone else and potentially internet (5G being the next big thing). While the market for a GPU actually literally depends on your resolution, which comes down to price limitations.
90% of Nvidia's own market is less perf than 1660ti according to their own heavily neutered revenue "hint".
/rambling nonsense.
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You can view Nvidia's profit margin here:
https://ycharts.com/companies/NVDA/profit_margin
Current margins at 17.75%.
You also have to take in to account that the HPC and data center products have far higher margins than the consumer parts.
While I am sure Turing has a higher profit margin than Pascal, I do;t think the difference is anywhere near what you are suggesting going by historic sales prices. Production costs have increased massively. Starting before 28nm fabrication costs have been increasing at 300%.
This x100.
Apple and Samsung quickly iterated new phones that had better screens, better performance, better cameras, better gaming, better design/looks. That quickly reached a point where we basically have the perfect smartphone. We don;t need higher resolution screens, we don;t need faster phones as everything is instantaneous. Cameras reached a level that the non-photographic folk are perfectly happy and don't need a dedicated camera.
After that there was zero innovation and so no need to upgrade.
It is a very different market to GPUs.
I've seen many videos of people playing ray traced games at acceptable FPS.
These numbers are not unplayable for example. Even at 1440p the lows on a 2080 are still better than framerates on some console triple AAA games that can tank well below 30. You could turn some settings down from ultra at 4K with no noticeable visual loss and get 1% lows of 30fps+ on a 2080ti as you could with a 2080 at 1440p. Whether the cost is worth it for ray tracing is down to the individual. If you expect 4K and everything on ultra with high FPS then maybe your expectations are not realistic for new technology. These super cards will add a bit more to those numbers but I'll wait for prices.
It's a drum that has been beaten to death as well but the price of these cards in the UK is not just down to Nvidia.
Caporegime
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Nope. If price wasn't a consideration then why are all the fastest growing phone companies,and those which are gaining massive marketshare are cheaper than Apple and Samsung??
Companies of the BBK group,ie, Vivo,OnePlus,Oppo and Realme have as much share than Huawei and Vivo,Oppo and Realme hardly have a foothold in the US and Europe. Huawei agressively priced their phones,so displaced Apple and is number 2,until the US intervened.
How did you think they have grown so much - being cheaper.
Guess how the Japanese car companies became so dominant?? They undercut our firms and didn't segment technologies like 4V per cylinder designs to only the high end.
A huge amount of Samsung phones sold are cheaper models,hence why they have started opening factories in countries like India because the Chinese firms are winning the budget and mainstream markets worldwide. Companies like Xiaomi are almost the level of Samsung now in that market,coming from nowhere.
Some of you forget the phone market isn't just Europe and the US,its the entire world.
The moment phone prices started escalating people kept keeping phones longer:
https://bgr.com/2018/10/29/smartphone-upgrade-cycle-new-data/
There are less carrier subsidies as Apple and Samsung don't want to reduce their margins so don't help the carriers.
You also seem to not get that many regions in the world also tend to not do subsidies using contracts - the phone has to be bought up front.
So a £1000 phone or perhaps another brands £400 phone which does 85% of that phone,people are gravitating towards the cheaper option.
Also something like 80% of the graphics cards sold are under $300 IIRC,and just look at the Steam charts. Cards like the GTX1060,GTX1050TI and GTX1050 are dominant. There are more GTX1060 users on the survey than GTX1070,GTX1070TI,GTX1080 and GTX1080TI users and the survey is biased towards people who care about hardware too as it is opt-in. Even in 2019 the GTX1060 is gaining more share than any of the Turing cards,which all cost more!
They are and all the high end phone fans don't get it. How convenient the moment Apple and Samsung tried jacking up phone prices,things started slowing down.
They only gave a massive chance for Chinese companies to swoop and inhabit the older price points with better products.
Samsung tried to price its A range mainstream phones to nearly £500. This is what their top end phones used to cost years ago.
Yet,now they have to use promotions to shift many of the A series,as they can't compete in price. You can get upto £200 off them now in the UK if you trade-in an old crap phone and use the instant discounts.
Edit!!
Also looking at the other links,the Nvidia margins during Fermi were between 10% to 16% and peaked at 39% with Pascal. LOL.
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Maergisn for Nvidia peaked with Pascal nnot due to the consumer parts though. Nvidia saw massive 400% growth in HPX and deep learning sales where margins can be 300-500%! Nvidia are selling Volta at 12K per a GPU
I know plenty, though... i'm not sure buying Huawei among the scuffed politics was wise, but hey ho.
Anyone buying Apple after the 6s was frankly paying for N+1 and nothing else, Samsung, i'm not sure about.
5G is about the only thing coming down the line that might be worth moving up for, but then what...
Caporegime
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I know a few who did actually. I also know mates who just buy iPhones say they cost too much now,so they will keep them longer and longer since its not worth spending £1000 to keep a phone for two years. If they had been priced lower they might have just done what they used to do,ie,just get a new phone every 2 years.
But you might want to explain why two Chinese groups have gone from nowhere to literally being the 2nd and 3rd biggest phone companies in the world within 5 years.
Oppo and Vivo have almost no exposure in Europe and the US. Yet BBK is the same company which owns both them AND OnePlus and Realme. Oppo and Vivo have almost as much share as Huawei.
You take for granted Japanese and South Korean tech companies and car companies now. Go back 50 years ago,and see how they got to where they were. They aggressively priced their products and didn't segment and our companies sat on their arses(mostly).
Did you also realise Apple back in the 80s was the cheaper option?? They were cheaper than alternatives from companies like Xerox,but then got greedy and increasingly got undercut by other rivals. How did you think Microsoft ascended to the top of the PC market,Windows was the budget option compared to Macs. It wasn't a better option AFAIK.
On forums people think price has no bearing on purchasing habits. Last time I checked more people shop at Asda or Tesco than Waitrose,and Lidl and Aldi are fast growing their share due to aggressive pricing. I am sure Waitrose,M and S,and other higher end stores sell better quality products.
Edit!!
Anyway,that's enough about phones - its a GPU thread after all!!
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I ditched Apple after the iPhone 4, and my current phone is a Huawei. Apple are massively overpriced for what you get, and there's really no need to pay that premium any more.
Caporegime
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Also especially since they are all made in China by companies making cheaper phones anyway. The cost might have been justified if the top end iPhones were made or even assembled in the US.